Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.
Forum rules
TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 14 Dec, 2020 8:28 am

Cecile says I can go skiing this winter.
But as is usual I'm short on funds and because of Covid I didn't even buy a lift ticket.
So it will be cross country and as usual based at Pretty Valley.
However for various reasons I don't want to use the bigger and stronger BlackWolf tent and need to use a POS tent I bought at BCF/Rays a few years ago that I can't even give away locally. A few seasons ago I tried wrapping the cheap fibreglass wand sections with tape and that proved to be a waste of time and effort.
This is the tent
https://www.bcf.com.au/p/wanderer-geo-e ... 0#start=16
As you can see a very large unsupported area in the vestibule.
So once again I am asking members to brainstorm with me and work out some sort of frame strengthening. While wrapping with FG reinforced tape didn't work I'm now thinking of sliding PVC pressure pipe over the FG wands. 20mm PVC will fit over the 10mm FG poles; at least in the front vestibule section.
I also have some old ski pole sections [ 16mm 7001 alloy] that I can use there. These tents have a frame that could be very strong against wind if the materials were better but as-is won't handle snow loads at all [BTDT]
This tent will be up for 5 to 8 weeks and then everything gets chucked out that isn't salvageable or recyclable.
I still have the heavy duty tarp from a couple of seasons ago that can be used as a third skin.
I have dozens of FG wand sections to play with, a lot of PVC Pressure pipe fittings and quite a few older steel tent poles etc;
Let the 2021 base camp project begin.
I will be using a wood stove in this tent and part of the project will be fitting out some part of the tent with a stove jack.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby stry » Mon 14 Dec, 2020 11:31 am

I'm sure you've thought of this, but the obvious fix for the unsupported area is a longditudinal piece between the two hoops and arched upward. The arch preload, plus snow load would put a lot of lateral pressure on the two hoops, which would need to be addressed, to stop it becoming a weakness. Perhaps a series of longditudinal pieces forming one ridgeline between all the hoops, and the ground at each end ?

I get the cost effectiveness of the pressure pipe sleeve, but unless it is an inconveniently snug fit on the fibreglass pole, I'm doubtful as to how much strength it will add. It should definitely add something, and maybe "something" will give sufficient margin for you. A heavy snow load at 2am should provide a definitive stress analysis :lol:
stry
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 6:28 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 14 Dec, 2020 12:00 pm

I thought that stopping the pultruded crap fibreglass from spitting with tape might be enough but the performance a few winters ago tells me that more is needed. I have indeed thought about the solution you posted above. Also adding an extra at the point where the side pole changes angle to the hoop over the door ; for 3 longitudinal spars, the lower two of which could be the smallest section I can get.
I do have a couple of carbon fibre tubes; but only 1100mm long; 25mm diametre tho so perhaps usable in the centre spar.
I don't have to stay with short sections as the new gear sled is going to be quite long
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Neo » Tue 15 Dec, 2020 8:30 pm

Have you thought of constructing a shelter from scratch on site? Like taking poles an ropes and coverings then putting it all together, skipping the tent as the starting point.
Neo
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed 31 Aug, 2016 4:53 pm
Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 16 Dec, 2020 6:29 am

Neo wrote:Have you thought of constructing a shelter from scratch on site? Like taking poles an ropes and coverings then putting it all together, skipping the tent as the starting point.


That is something I never thought about.
I have the tent tho and the heavy duty tarp
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Neo » Wed 16 Dec, 2020 12:48 pm

A picture in my mind, a pair of oversized A frames big enough for two to stand side by side, long ridge pole and a few rafters all lashed together, covered with tarps or builders plastic. Small tents off one end as the guest accommodation, plenty of room for stretcher/stove/kitchen/lounge area. Could even hang blankets for some insulation.
Neo
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed 31 Aug, 2016 4:53 pm
Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 17 Dec, 2020 6:06 am

Hanging blankets inside a tent was common practice in North America decades ago I believe and there are a few companies that do insulated tents for Alaskan and Arctic camps. I can't afford that and neither could I drag something like that on my sled, also those tents use LPG heaters not wood stoves.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Thu 17 Dec, 2020 9:53 pm

Hi Moondog, I hear funds maybe short however would an old 11x11 work? A longer term investment. If I understand you experience, you would know how warm black-out curtains can be in these tents. Canvass would allow for wood stove compatability and support modifications quite easily.
Cons for an 11x11 are no floor, untested snow shedding capability in my limited experience. Waxing canvass would help snow shedding and assuming hot tenting would prevent too much build up between regular snow clearing.
If funds are low, maybe crowd funding could assist?? 2 doz ppl @ $50 apiece would do it. Just spitballing here. I don't know you but I'd throw $50 for the cause.
Heremeahappy1
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue 21 Nov, 2017 6:26 am
Location: Gippsland
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 18 Dec, 2020 6:07 am

The old Elevevbye is snow rated and winter rated with a liner. The blackout liners are almost impossible to get.
I like the idea but because this is going to be the last time I'll just muddle thru with the old tent; unless we win the lottery of course.
There is a perfect tent for this sort of camp but WOW! Hilleberg Stallon
https://hilleberg.com/eng/tent/blue-lab ... stalon-xl/
If we win the lottery on New Years Day I'll be ordering a couple.
Luckily I enjoy the tinkering challenge, feedback from the USA says that PVC frames are quite robust but their snow loads are lighter than ours, wet snow is heavy.
Talking of which Ceciles family in Upper New York state got well over a metre of snow last nite and more on the way
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby rcaffin » Fri 18 Dec, 2020 7:05 pm

I am a bit puzzled by all this. The tent you are talking about is a 6-man tent! And it is designed for lowlands in a tourist campsite.
I question whether you can get to a good snow tent from here.

Cheers
Roger
User avatar
rcaffin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 18 Dec, 2020 9:33 pm

Maybe not Roger. But as I can't even give it away it's worth trying.
The design does actually handle wind quite well, after all our Surf Coast is known for it's sudden summer squalls and they handle those.
The reasons for such a large tent are three-fold, I need to be able to stand up and stretch in the morning; I need to sleep on a full sized cot and I'll be using a wood burning stove to keep my gear dry over the month of my stay.
Cot takes up 2 floor spaces, stove takes up another two spaces, the rest is for the chair and the reading lamp. Simple really, also it's not 6 full grown rugby players; more like 2 adults and 4 little kids.
Which BTW is why I have the tent in the first place, grandkids and school holidays/ holydaze
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Kickinghorse » Sat 08 May, 2021 4:07 pm

The search is over for the perfect Winter tent stove. Just unscrew the letterbox and off you go :D

Image

Phil
Kickinghorse
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun 18 Nov, 2018 11:56 am
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 08 May, 2021 5:52 pm

I like that idea.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 15 May, 2021 8:16 pm

Strengthening will come from an additional exterior frame made using 50mm aluminium tubing and a heavy duty polyester fly.
I have nutted out a method using what tubing I have for two cross bars over the long axis plus one or two lengths of PVC conduit along the axis. PVC conduit is relatively cheap and also flexible when warm. As per my initial post I'll superglue some of the old fibreglass wand sections together and thread them thru the conduit and hope the combination will add just enough to keep the snow load off the inner tent.
Probably two long wands but maybe three would be better. I'll assemble on-site.
Must remember to put solvent glue in the toolbox and include my battery drill and some small bolts
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Warin » Sat 15 May, 2021 8:45 pm

When cold glues don't cure as fast.
If your going for a repair at cold temps .. lashing it together might be better,, some thin aluminum and some zip ties could be good?
User avatar
Warin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 16 May, 2021 10:03 am

I'll keep that in mind Warin.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 18 May, 2021 3:17 pm

Just in case the extra fly fails I have quickly fabricated a centre pole and load spreader. By the time you get an XL sized stretcher and the wood stove inside there really isn't any extra room. Flue fits though the spokes on that die cast wheel.
I have to take the fly off and fit the silicon Dectite next
Attachments
IMG_1841.JPG
IMG_1841.JPG (122.14 KiB) Viewed 2210 times
IMG_1839.JPG
IMG_1839.JPG (156.08 KiB) Viewed 2210 times
IMG_1842.JPG
IMG_1842.JPG (113.03 KiB) Viewed 2210 times
IMG_1837.JPG
IMG_1837.JPG (138.77 KiB) Viewed 2210 times
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Tino B » Wed 19 May, 2021 12:57 am

Nice work Moondog - look forward to pics of it in action.
Tino B
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun 18 Nov, 2018 5:43 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 19 May, 2021 9:55 am

I am fitting the Decktite today
I am hoping that the fabric will have enough strength; it is very lightweight. I'll squeegee some extra silicon around and hope for the best
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 19 May, 2021 5:03 pm

Dektite fitted and should hold; a couple of small bolts will help.
A flue question

As the stack height increases the stoves draw gets better but the amount of steel exposed to the cold air and wind also increase when it gets past the tent fly. Should I try and get a second skin on the exposed part of the flue? Anybody got a few empty milo tins ??
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 19 May, 2021 5:30 pm

Replying to your post back when Stry.
I superglued a heap of 10mm fibreglass tent wand sections together and then used all my old 16mm ski poles cut as straight sections over the top and inserted this crap composite inside the length of 20mm PVC.
The aluminium is 7071 so quite strong and goes from one cross bar to another at the rear of the tent and ten down to the ground to provide some small extra support for the big fly
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby stry » Thu 20 May, 2021 7:05 pm

Sounds like a plan MD. The snugger the fit of each material inside the one over it, the stronger it will be. If any gap between the layers was filled with whatever as you assembled it, that would help. If the ski poles (stocks in my day :lol: ) are butted they will be weaker there, but if none of the butts lines up with a join in an adjacent layer, the whole shebang could be surprisingly strong.

I understand your thoughts on double walling the flu, but the only definitive answer to whether or the wind sucks out enough heat out of the single wall to interfere with the draw will come as a result of suck it and see. Might also help not to make the flu overly long. There is an optimum flu length for wood heaters, but I can't recall what it is. In a house, the outlet must be above the ridgeline or funny things can be caused by wind, but I don't think that will be an issue in your setup.

Getting all this onto site is going to resemble Steptoe on Holidays :lol:
stry
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 6:28 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 May, 2021 9:21 pm

And as the gate in down still I may have to use that horse and cart.
In truth most of the bulk and weight will be firewood which is why it's always a gamble with the weather in the month before Queens Birthday W/E
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 23 May, 2021 1:53 pm

I've packed several PVC conduit off-cuts to use as splints in case a fibreglass wand snaps. Do you see any great advantage with sleeving the FG with 20mm orange conduit in advance?
Conduit is a lot cheaper than replacement FG pole sections
https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-20mm-h ... t_p4330850
At $5:34 a length I could do the main poles for $25-
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby stry » Sun 23 May, 2021 8:49 pm

If you have any concerns at all, it will be immeasurably easier to add the extra at home than as a field repair after a break. A break would not be good - tent sags - flu ends up touching something it shouldn't- how to access the break and actually fix it without removing the entire section. And of course when it breaks it will be snowing/raining, and or windy. Adding it now will also make a much stronger pole than adding it later over a break.

I'm guessing that transport to site is the same either way.

It's your call on the cost/benefit tradeoff, but if you are going to take some extra pvc along anyway, any cost diff. will be minimal.

I'd say adding it at home is a lay down misere. :) Make your first shot at it your best. :)
stry
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 6:28 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 23 May, 2021 9:47 pm

Looksa like another trip to Bunnings in the AM then.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10184
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter base camp tent strengthen query

Postby Kickinghorse » Thu 27 May, 2021 9:53 am

MD seems there’s no limit to imagination and invention! Not sure re a tent application though :D

https://youtu.be/UHdutPrJGwA
Kickinghorse
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun 18 Nov, 2018 11:56 am
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male


Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 15 guests