X Mid - Dan Durston

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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby dandurston » Sat 14 Mar, 2020 4:42 pm

There's a good chance you end up happy about that, because Canada's tariff on tents (18%) plus sales tax (12% in most areas) means a pretty stiff 31% bill unless it slips through without getting billed.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Drew » Thu 19 Mar, 2020 2:50 pm

Drew: Nice job pitching on the platform. That's a great looking pitch. Also neat to see the comparison with the Triplex. I wonder if the Triplex roof always pull that low, or if that's just a lot of tension on the guyouts relative to down the ridgeline. Do happen to have a full resolution version of that image you wouldn't mind me using? Would be handy to show the X-Mid on a platform, and to show relative size versus other tents. If you do wish to share, you could email it to dan@durstongear.com


No worries Dan, I'll send you a pic. The Triplex always seems to have two "horns" where the poles are, with a bit of a dip in the ridgeline (as opposed to the straight ridgeline of the X-mid, Stratospire etc). But it did seem to dip a lot lower on this occasion. My friend wasn't that experienced with it, so pitching in those windy conditions was a joint effort. We may have gone for extra security on the guyouts and pulled the ridge down a bit. It seemed solid though so we didn't bother starting from scratch!
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby lachmac » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 2:19 pm

XMid2 arrived this week, first pitch at local park.
IMG_20200319_182204_8.jpg

1.1 kg excluding pegs and poles
Easy to pitch, capacious, wind resistant, quality construction.
For me the ideal design for a 2 person, 3+ season tent.
Available on Drop now for USD280, pity our exchange rate has temporarily gone to pot.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby dandurston » Sat 21 Mar, 2020 3:58 am

Glad your first impressions are good!
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby fixa » Sun 22 Mar, 2020 2:50 pm

Yep my 2P arrived this week too. Forgot to take pics, but it fits two wide pads in it. Would be a very comfy 1 person shelter. I like the placement of the pockets in the fly compared to the 1P. Great job again Dan!
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Tue 24 Mar, 2020 3:45 pm

dandurston wrote:There's a good chance you end up happy about that, because Canada's tariff on tents (18%) plus sales tax (12% in most areas) means a pretty stiff 31% bill unless it slips through without getting billed.


As it turns out, Coronavirus has forced my hand and I’m heading home, so I’ll be picking it up from Australia and bringing it back to Canada with me when things settle.

Now to decide on poles and a new pack (Sierra Designs, Gregory, Deuter, Osprey... hmm) .. Fun times for a moderate gear junkie!!

I forget what the deal is with poles - can be hiking poles but you can also buy actual tent poles for it? Where can I find those? Hiking poles that extend to 125cm? Any particular recommendation? Can’t wait to see it. My sister and her partner who are are old school hikers can’t believe the size/weight of it (still in its postage box). Cheers
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby dandurston » Wed 25 Mar, 2020 3:14 am

Any trekking poles should work. A few models have longer tips which weren't fully compatible with early versions of the 1P, but there have been revisions since to better accommodate that.

You can also buy folding poles. The ideal would be a 5 piece pole so it packs short, carbon so it's lighter, and adjustable for fine tuning. Ruta Locura makes something like that for HMG (Link below) but as a 4 piece pole, but I think they'll custom make a 5 piece if you ask directly via their website.
https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/p ... r-pole-set
http://www.rutalocura.com/tent_pole_450.html

If you are willing to forego the adjuster, you need a pole in the 47-48" range. You can make your own with parts from tent supply places like Quest Outfitters, or many brands sell folding poles like TarpTent:
https://www.tarptent.com/product/vertical-support-pole/
https://www.questoutfitters.com/Tent_Poles_CF.htm

I'm sure there are similar companies in Australia too - I'm just not familiar with them.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Warin » Wed 25 Mar, 2020 9:24 am

FNM wrote:As it turns out, Coronavirus has forced my hand and I’m heading home, so I’ll be picking it up from Australia and bringing it back to Canada with me when things settle.


Trust your ready for the 14 day self isolation.

FNM wrote:My sister and her partner who are are old school hikers can’t believe the size/weight of it (still in its postage box).


There is also the impressive volume of it when erected.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Wed 25 Mar, 2020 10:38 am

dandurston wrote:Any trekking poles should work. A few models have longer tips which weren't fully compatible with early versions of the 1P, but there have been revisions since to better accommodate that.

You can also buy folding poles. The ideal would be a 5 piece pole so it packs short, carbon so it's lighter, and adjustable for fine tuning. Ruta Locura makes something like that for HMG (Link below) but as a 4 piece pole, but I think they'll custom make a 5 piece if you ask directly via their website.
https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/p ... r-pole-set
http://www.rutalocura.com/tent_pole_450.html

If you are willing to forego the adjuster, you need a pole in the 47-48" range. You can make your own with parts from tent supply places like Quest Outfitters, or many brands sell folding poles like TarpTent:
https://www.tarptent.com/product/vertical-support-pole/
https://www.questoutfitters.com/Tent_Poles_CF.htm

I'm sure there are similar companies in Australia too - I'm just not familiar with them.


Cool, thanks. Will suss it all out when I get home!
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Wed 25 Mar, 2020 10:41 am

Warin wrote:
FNM wrote:As it turns out, Coronavirus has forced my hand and I’m heading home, so I’ll be picking it up from Australia and bringing it back to Canada with me when things settle.


Trust your ready for the 14 day self isolation.

FNM wrote:My sister and her partner who are are old school hikers can’t believe the size/weight of it (still in its postage box).


There is also the impressive volume of it when erected.


Yep. Lucky enough to have parents back home who can buy all essentials for my brother and I before we arrive. Also lucky enough to have some family friends with a free holiday house that the folks can use for those first couple of weeks. They’ll drive two cars to airport, throw us the car keys and we’ll be driving the one car to their house. Not willing to risk any contact bc they’re well into the higher risk age group. Going to be strange.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby sailfish » Thu 09 Apr, 2020 8:55 pm

I bought a X-Mid 1p from Drop a few months ago. I noted that Dan seems to stress taking the time to get the rectangle set out nice and square. I just eyeballed it the 1st time and that worked fine but then I thought, some people might be put off by that and if it's raining and horrible, you just want to get the fly up fast and not mess about adjusting the rectangle. So I came up with a method of getting it pegged out accurately square, fast and with no extra gear, measuring or marking out. I put this on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aNTuurDEFE. Just make sure captions are on cos there is no dialogue.

Regards, Ken
Last edited by sailfish on Fri 10 Apr, 2020 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Thu 09 Apr, 2020 10:12 pm

sailfish wrote:I bought a X-Mid 1p from Drop a few months ago. I noted that Dan seems to stress taking the time to get the rectangle set out nice and square. I just eyeballed it the 1st time and that worked fine but then I thought, some people might be put off by that and if it's raining and horrible, you just want to get the fly up fast and not mess about adjusting the rectangle. So I came up with a method of getting it pegged out accurately square fast and with not extra gear, measuring or marking out. I put this on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aNTuurDEFE. Just make sure captions are on cos there is no dialogue.

Regards, Ken


Ah, that’s you! Saw it on Drop I think. Great vid - thanks!
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Tue 05 May, 2020 4:35 pm

Bit more ‘analysis paralysis’ going on...

Have to decide what type of tent/trekking pole to use.

I’ve never been a user of trekking poles, but also haven’t done a lot of overnight hiking - something that will be changing, so maybe I will start to use them more? My knees aren’t great for a mid-30s, especially on descent. When I did Bogong last year I picked up a stick early on and kept it with me the entire way, so maybe that is an indication. Anyway, I don’t know a lot about trekking poles, so if there are any other better suggestions than what I’m offering below, please let me know!

I’ve got a CF tent pole, CF Trekking pole, Aluminium tent pole and aluminium trekking pole to choose from (I’m assuming these are the best options). As always I consider cost, durability and weight and then try and find the most suitable product.

Here are the options I’ve created so far:

Carbon Fibre Tent Pole: Z-packs 48” (120cm) non-adjustable tent pole. Cost for 2 delivered $120AUD. Weight for 2: 142g

Aluminium Tent Pole: Lightheart Gear, $110 delivered for 2. Weight for 2: 230g .. These are adjustable but marginally too long (49 - 53”), so I would need to cut 2 - 3 inches off the length to give myself a 46/47” - 50/51” (115-125cm). Have had contact with them and seems achievable without too much difficulty.

Carbon Trekking Pole: Black Diamond Distance Carbon Z 120cm. Not adjustable. $215. Weight for pair: 298g.

Aluminium Trekking Pole: Black Diamond Distance FLZ. Adjustable 105-125cm. Weight for pair: 445g.

I haven’t had any experience with CF tent poles and don’t really know the ins and outs except that it crushes easily??? That sounds risky for trekking poles. Trekking poles make the most sense for versatility, if I’m going to use them.

I’m very excited for the X-Mid, but a part of me wonders if I did make the right call given that I’m not already a trekking pole owner. Part of that is because adding the cost of the trekking poles takes the price right up near the SlingFin Portal, which is a tent I really love the look of and had my heart set on but baulked at the price. I also think I gave too much consideration to being able to fit 2 wide sleeping pads, when realistically the 2p X-Mid will probably be used by me solo 99% of the time (another reason I baulked at the Portal as it has a tapered foot). If I go a cheaper trekking pole, then the weight goes above the Portal as well. If I go the trekking pole route and find myself using the trekking poles on a lot of hikes, then that puts things in favour of the X-Mid again! Ah well, serious example of first world problems!! :?

Any advice appreciated :)
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby slparker » Tue 05 May, 2020 6:26 pm

If you intend to use the poles for walking as well adjustable ones are probably a better idea; that said I used the BD carbon z poles for a couple of years and they work OK wiht the x-mid. I use the massdrop fizan poles now (linked below). If you don't intend to walk with them the z-packs are your best option.

Carbon is very strong axially but, yes, more prone to both crushing and snapping on perpendicular forces - only an issue when using carbon as a walking pole, can't imagine that this would be an issue if used purely as a tent-pole.

Aluminium poles still break but tend to bend prior to snapping completely. You can splint any pole with tape and some aluminium flashing (cut off a coke can for example) of some kind if you remember to take it.

You can buy very light alu poles if you don't trust carbon:
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-fizan-compact

weight is 160 g per pole.

Warning - I punctured the fly on my x-mid with the nice sharp tip. Easily repaired however.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Tue 05 May, 2020 9:12 pm

slparker wrote:If you intend to use the poles for walking as well adjustable ones are probably a better idea; that said I used the BD carbon z poles for a couple of years and they work OK wiht the x-mid. I use the massdrop fizan poles now (linked below). If you don't intend to walk with them the z-packs are your best option.

Carbon is very strong axially but, yes, more prone to both crushing and snapping on perpendicular forces - only an issue when using carbon as a walking pole, can't imagine that this would be an issue if used purely as a tent-pole.

Aluminium poles still break but tend to bend prior to snapping completely. You can splint any pole with tape and some aluminium flashing (cut off a coke can for example) of some kind if you remember to take it.

You can buy very light alu poles if you don't trust carbon:
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-fizan-compact

weight is 160 g per pole.

Warning - I punctured the fly on my x-mid with the nice sharp tip. Easily repaired however.


Thanks! I had forgotten about those Fizan poles. Might be the path to take - that way if I decide I’m not using them to hike I can offload them at not so much cost and grab some of the tent poles instead.. And if I find I do use them for hiking, then I can look at getting some sturdier ones and I won’t be so concerned about the additional weight.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Ms_Mudd » Fri 08 May, 2020 2:41 pm

FNM, I am going through all my gear at the moment and tweaking my set up too, seeing as I can't get out to spend a night in my tent - other than my backyard. Spending a lot more time on the forum too :lol:

I would honestly advise against CF trekking poles, if you were going to give them a whirl for walking as well as being your tent poles.

I own and love BD Carbon Distance Z poles, I bought them explicitly for trail running but ended up using them more often than not walking too. The handles are a nice size for my hands and they are awesome if you have to fly anywhere to walk as they fold to nothing BUT when I have tripped over them, caught them in vines etc and exerted some lateral force, they sure feel like they would love to snap. Okay if I am out for the day, but worrisome if they are going to be tent poles.

The additional problem with my BD CF poles are they are fixed length and are too short for the XMid so I had to mess around with getting CF pole extenders from Zpacks which ended up costing a bomb and didn't quite work with the tip of my poles anyway, so I had to leccy tape the end of the poles to create more width to fit snugly. I also initially had them cut too long and they would have been sitting at 122+cm. This was too high to have the XMid in 'limpet mode' as Lamont calls it. Sure, you could fix it by angling the poles, but the pitch would have been way better set at the magical 117cm that the XMid loves.
If you went the CF pole route, your fixed length poles would be a touch too long for the tent, so you would have the same less than perfect pitch.

Carbon fibre poles as a stand alone tent pole are totally fine for the XMid though. I own some very light, delicate feeling CF shock-corded poles made by a forum member for use when bikepacking. I was skeptical about them being solid enough to pitch the tent, but it was one of the best pitches I have ever gotten and surprisingly there was no force created on the poles at all. Such a beautifully designed tent. So, if not wanting walking poles, going this option would totally work and be as light as a feather.

I own clunky Komperdell Ridgehikers which I was happy with (until feeling the lightness of CF :roll: ) as they feel rock solid and I would have no qualms about using them as my XMid poles , I can adjust the height too to suit the weather. I think really that unless I am flying anywhere, I will go back to these chunkmeisters for the XMid.
In an ideal world, I would have the lighter Fizans, but can't really justify the $ when I have something useable already.

So, a very long way to say- if you were wanting to use trekking poles and don't own any already, the Fizans seem a very optimal purchase.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Sat 09 May, 2020 11:23 pm

Ms_Mudd wrote:FNM, I am going through all my gear at the moment and tweaking my set up too, seeing as I can't get out to spend a night in my tent - other than my backyard. Spending a lot more time on the forum too :lol:

I would honestly advise against CF trekking poles, if you were going to give them a whirl for walking as well as being your tent poles.

I own and love BD Carbon Distance Z poles, I bought them explicitly for trail running but ended up using them more often than not walking too. The handles are a nice size for my hands and they are awesome if you have to fly anywhere to walk as they fold to nothing BUT when I have tripped over them, caught them in vines etc and exerted some lateral force, they sure feel like they would love to snap. Okay if I am out for the day, but worrisome if they are going to be tent poles.

The additional problem with my BD CF poles are they are fixed length and are too short for the XMid so I had to mess around with getting CF pole extenders from Zpacks which ended up costing a bomb and didn't quite work with the tip of my poles anyway, so I had to leccy tape the end of the poles to create more width to fit snugly. I also initially had them cut too long and they would have been sitting at 122+cm. This was too high to have the XMid in 'limpet mode' as Lamont calls it. Sure, you could fix it by angling the poles, but the pitch would have been way better set at the magical 117cm that the XMid loves.
If you went the CF pole route, your fixed length poles would be a touch too long for the tent, so you would have the same less than perfect pitch.

Carbon fibre poles as a stand alone tent pole are totally fine for the XMid though. I own some very light, delicate feeling CF shock-corded poles made by a forum member for use when bikepacking. I was skeptical about them being solid enough to pitch the tent, but it was one of the best pitches I have ever gotten and surprisingly there was no force created on the poles at all. Such a beautifully designed tent. So, if not wanting walking poles, going this option would totally work and be as light as a feather.

I own clunky Komperdell Ridgehikers which I was happy with (until feeling the lightness of CF :roll: ) as they feel rock solid and I would have no qualms about using them as my XMid poles , I can adjust the height too to suit the weather. I think really that unless I am flying anywhere, I will go back to these chunkmeisters for the XMid.
In an ideal world, I would have the lighter Fizans, but can't really justify the $ when I have something useable already.

So, a very long way to say- if you were wanting to use trekking poles and don't own any already, the Fizans seem a very optimal purchase.


Great advice Ms Mudd. I am going to order those poles tomorrow! I will likely have the security most of the time of being with my brother who will also be carrying a 2-person tent, which will be nice to begin with as I figure out whether I’m a trekking pole user or not and learn to trust the gear (poles). Eventually, I’ll buy either more substantial trekking poles or separate tent poles as well, for any trips where I’m heading remote for days and need the reliability/security.

PS. Yesterday, I was looking through some threads from last year where we briefly discussed sleeping pads, as I was considering buying the Klymit Static V Insulated Luxe. I still haven’t bought a new pad but will in the next couple of weeks. I’m not seeking the lightest in a pad (though all things being relatively equal would choose lightest). I’m pretty much set on the Exped SynMat XP 9LW, which comes in at a hefty 1.15kg. It’s 75D Polyester. I could go the UL version that uses 30D Poly and comes in at 820g but would prefer long-lasting ... In saying that, both come with a 5yr warranty, so perhaps I’m underestimating the UL version. Have toyed with the idea of the Exped HyperLite Duo 1.050kg (130-100 wide) but lower R-Value of 3.2 (-3) and more expensive... -3 would probably do me, all the same..hmm... I loved the width of the Klymit so much (76cm) that I messaged Exped a couple of days ago to see if they had any plans to release a similar width - they pointed me to the Exped Megamat 12 Lite LXW which I’d already checked out as it is 77cm wide, but it comes in at 1.365kg, which is getting a bit much :D I also messaged Klymit to see if they had plans to release a heavier insulated version but didn’t sound like anything in the works, sadly.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Ms_Mudd » Sun 10 May, 2020 3:59 am

I understand the mat dilemma.
For me, I think it is worth carrying the extra weight in that category if it substantially benefits your sleep quality and comfort. Others value a lighter overall load and can manage sleep on a wafer sized mat.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Tue 19 May, 2020 7:38 pm

slparker wrote:If you intend to use the poles for walking as well adjustable ones are probably a better idea; that said I used the BD carbon z poles for a couple of years and they work OK wiht the x-mid. I use the massdrop fizan poles now (linked below). If you don't intend to walk with them the z-packs are your best option.

Carbon is very strong axially but, yes, more prone to both crushing and snapping on perpendicular forces - only an issue when using carbon as a walking pole, can't imagine that this would be an issue if used purely as a tent-pole.

Aluminium poles still break but tend to bend prior to snapping completely. You can splint any pole with tape and some aluminium flashing (cut off a coke can for example) of some kind if you remember to take it.

You can buy very light alu poles if you don't trust carbon:
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-fizan-compact

weight is 160 g per pole.

Warning - I punctured the fly on my x-mid with the nice sharp tip. Easily repaired however.


I ordered the poles and expect them to arrive by the end of the week. Do you have any suggestions for how I avoid puncturing the fly? Is it just a matter of taking a file to the tip? Cheers
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby dandurston » Wed 20 May, 2020 4:52 am

I'm not sure if that fly puncture was an errant tip (e.g. accidentally poking the wall) or occurred at the peaks. Early versions of the 1P were not compatible with all styles of pole tips, so longer pole tips could protrude too far through the grommet and in a few rare occasions did damage the fly. The design has since been updated to lower the grommet slightly and add more reinforcement above, so it should be compatible with all styles of pole tips now. I've used it quite a bit with the Fizan poles and don't think you'll have an issue.
Last edited by dandurston on Thu 21 May, 2020 6:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby slparker » Wed 20 May, 2020 8:46 am

It was user error, Dan, I should have been clearer.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby FNM » Wed 20 May, 2020 10:31 pm

dandurston wrote:I'm not sure if that fly puncture was an errant tip (e.g. accidentally poking the wall) or occurred at the peaks. Early versions of the 1P were not compatible with all styles of pole tips, so longer pole tips could protrude too far through the grommet and damage the fly. The design has since been updated to lower the grommet slightly and add more reinforcement above, so it should be compatible with all styles of pole tips now. I've used it quite a bit with the Fizan poles and don't think you'l have an issue.


Ah sweet! That’s a relief. Thanks for your input, as always!

As an aside, I recently read somewhere that you live in Golden. I just did a ski season with my brother down the road, living in Invermere and working at T-Bar, Panorama! Passed through Golden several times (heading to Rev etc). Could have caught up for a beer!! :) Trip interrupted by Covid. Starting to look like we won’t get back for next ski season due to closed borders - did not expect that when we headed home. If we do get back for winter, I suspect we’ll live in Nelson and ski Whitewater/Red. Had an amazing couple of days at WW (Red was short on snow). If we miss winter, my fingers and toes will be crossed for summer 2021 - my dreams are for the backcountry hiking in North America and potentially mountaineering courses! Have some friends from here remain in Canada - they actually went camping at Bluewater Creek over the weekend.

Anyhoo, I have my hands on the tent now, which is awesome, though I’m waiting for my poles before opening it up! Cheers
Last edited by FNM on Thu 21 May, 2020 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby dandurston » Thu 21 May, 2020 6:19 am

Yeah I love Golden. Surrounded by so many parks and peaks. Constantly overwhelmed with trip opportunities. That's funny you mention the Bluewater. I tried to drive up that FSR about 3 weeks ago to try to packraft it, but the road was still quite snowy.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Warin » Thu 21 May, 2020 12:01 pm

FNM wrote: Starting to look like we won’t get back for next ski season due to closed borders - did not expect that when we headed home.


Italy is opening their border with no isolation requirement. Returning might be more of a problem currently.

Fingers firmly crossed for the future.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 21 May, 2020 12:38 pm

Yeah starting to see travel in Europe opening up.

I suspect that if other countries start reopening and allowing international travel (successfully without having to shut again due to outbreaks!!) then the pressure on Australia to do the same will be immense. To much money/jobs on the line and we won't want to get left behind. So you may get in a winter North America trip after all.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby north-north-west » Thu 21 May, 2020 5:24 pm

And here comes the second wave . . .
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby ribuck » Thu 21 May, 2020 8:26 pm

north-north-west wrote:And here comes the second wave . . .

Well, for Australia it would sort-of be the rest of the first wave.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby tiny_tol » Fri 22 May, 2020 11:07 am

Anyone tried to pitch this tent on a rock shelf where pegs won't work? I usually pile roles to pitch my current tent and I'm wondering if you can get the tension needed for the X mid in such circumstances.
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby north-north-west » Fri 22 May, 2020 12:37 pm

ribuck wrote:
north-north-west wrote:And here comes the second wave . . .

Well, for Australia it would sort-of be the rest of the first wave.

Thinking more of Europe. We've been *&%$#! lucky here so far.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: X Mid - Dan Durston

Postby Warin » Fri 22 May, 2020 3:16 pm

tiny_tol wrote:Anyone tried to pitch this tent on a rock shelf where pegs won't work? I usually pile roles to pitch my current tent and I'm wondering if you can get the tension needed for the X mid in such circumstances.


If your current tent is 'free standing' or near to it then the strain on the attachment points will be far less than any tent that is not free standing, X Mid or not.

Rock shelves are usually surrounded by vegetation, you should be able to fasten one end of the X Mid using that vegetation and that end should point into the wind. Rocks can be used to keep the guy lines down to keep the tent close to the ground. On the other end ... more rocks... and if you have the chance run off to the vegetation too.

Rock shelves are not comfortable to camp on ... softer ground would be better. There is also the abrasion aspect of rock to consider. Best to avoid rock self camping it possible.
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