Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby icefest » Thu 03 Dec, 2015 9:39 pm

I can't say I recommend the 10 pack of tissues. They are made from longer fibres and while strong, decompose much slower. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart much faster.

I don't bother with a trowel anymore. I have my walking poles and when combined with a stick they make wonderful digging implements.

If you do get a trowel, remember to wash it after you go bushwalking - we don't want phytophora spreading even further.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby corvus » Thu 03 Dec, 2015 11:08 pm

icefest wrote:I can't say I recommend the 10 pack of tissues. They are made from longer fibres and while strong, decompose much slower. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart much faster.

I don't bother with a trowel anymore. I have my walking poles and when combined with a stick they make wonderful digging implements.

If you do get a trowel, remember to wash it after you go bushwalking - we don't want phytophora spreading even further.



Really walking poles as digging implements ? where do you go walking that the ground is so soft to enable you to do this this ? also your claim against the 10 pack could be offset from the need to use less
:lol:
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby icefest » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:51 am

Using more paper that decomposes fast is preferable to leaving it there for ages. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart when it gets wet. Tissues will stay together. Once toilet paper fibres are dissipated and soiled, they decompose much faster than tissues.

My poles worked in the franklands, Arthurs, SCT, Central Plateau, Vic Alps, GSWW.
The time you spend getting out the trowel, cleaning it and carrying it, I spend thinking ahead about my poo spot. (Personal preference >50m from trail, >100m from water, nice view, soft ground). Life's too short to have a crappy poo.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Orion » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 1:29 pm

icefest wrote:Using more paper that decomposes fast is preferable to leaving it there for ages. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart when it gets wet. Tissues will stay together. Once toilet paper fibres are dissipated and soiled, they decompose much faster than tissues.

You guys don't carry it out? That's standard operating procedure here in California. It's the law, actually. Everyone knows that TP hangs around for a while. Maybe not forever, especially in wetter climates. But seeing so much of it over the years changed my mind pretty early. I've seen it in Tasmania too.

Thanks for the suggestion about a snow stake, I'm going to add that to my kit. A boot heel is often insufficient and those orange plastic trowels break when you need them. Walking poles? Mine are so skinny and fragile I wouldn't be able to dig a hole in sand with them.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Xplora » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 1:50 pm

Mark F wrote:As this is the UL forum the answer is to not add weight by buying/carrying something extra - use a tent peg you already carry or find a pointy stick.

This is a bushwalking forum with a sub forum under the equipment banner. The question I thought was relevant in this sub forum as it related to a lighter weight trowel which is part of equipment and also part of reducing the weight you carry. I think sometimes the alternate options such as a pointy stick, heel of a boot or a tent peg will not cut it and you will find yourself not getting the hole dug deep enough in time for the evacuation. I have noticed a number of people carrying tubes for their twosies. This is probably the most responsible thing but burying it 150mm down is still considered appropriate and if done correctly you should never see it unless you happen across another person's hole. Personally we carry an IPood which is OK but I do like the look of the Titaniums. The IPood lacks a bit but still better than the plastic or the aforementioned methods.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 1:57 pm

Orion we carry out where it's needful to do so but not as a general rule
I am sure that will change as numbers grow
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby icefest » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 2:44 pm

Orion wrote:You guys don't carry it out? That's standard operating procedure here in California. It's the law, actually. Everyone knows that TP hangs around for a while. Maybe not forever, especially in wetter climates. But seeing so much of it over the years changed my mind pretty early. I've seen it in Tasmania too.


I do most/all of my walking where it's wet enough not to make me carry loads of water. I have in the past burned my TP, when everything was wet and I would be 100% sure not to start a wildfire. Either way, I mash the TP (or ashes) and poop around with a stick and the soil in the hole. That tears the TP smaller, glues it into the earth and hopefully makes it decompose faster.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Nuts » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 2:47 pm

Need receptacles on popular walking tracks to encourage baggies, old school thinking it may be.

That titanium trowel, that could double as a snow or sand peg.

kitty wrote:A good suggestion from this forum is instead of a roll of TP, take a few small packets of tissues. This is a good safeguard against an entire roll getting wet.


Don't take the roll from your pack, remove the cardboard centre (UL- :wink: ) and the roll can be carried on end (freezerbag- UL :wink: ) and simply enough for each event drawn out from its centre.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby corvus » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 4:13 pm

Nuts wrote:Need receptacles on popular walking tracks to encourage baggies, old school thinking it may be.

That titanium trowel, that could double as a snow or sand peg.

kitty wrote:A good suggestion from this forum is instead of a roll of TP, take a few small packets of tissues. This is a good safeguard against an entire roll getting wet.


Don't take the roll from your pack, remove the cardboard centre (UL- :wink: ) and the roll can be carried on end (freezerbag- UL :wink: ) and simply enough for each event drawn out from its centre.


Be nice to know beforehand how much you may need using this method :lol:
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby stry » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 4:19 pm

corvus wrote:
Nuts wrote:Need receptacles on popular walking tracks to encourage baggies, old school thinking it may be.

That titanium trowel, that could double as a snow or sand peg.

kitty wrote:A good suggestion from this forum is instead of a roll of TP, take a few small packets of tissues. This is a good safeguard against an entire roll getting wet.


Don't take the roll from your pack, remove the cardboard centre (UL- :wink: ) and the roll can be carried on end (freezerbag- UL :wink: ) and simply enough for each event drawn out from its centre.


Be nice to know beforehand how much you may need using this method :lol:


You're confusing me Corvus. I can't see how removing paper from one end or the other of the roll can have any effect on much you need, or how much is used :?

Methinks this topic is getting way poo technical, apart from this observation :

icefest wrote: .......I spend thinking ahead about my poo spot. (Personal preference >50m from trail, >100m from water, nice view, soft ground). Life's too short to have a crappy poo.


with which I most heartily concur !!!!!
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Nuts » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 4:36 pm

Wet and Wild! not 'Wet 'n' Wild'
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby corvus » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 5:06 pm

stry wrote:
corvus wrote:
Nuts wrote:Need receptacles on popular walking tracks to encourage baggies, old school thinking it may be.

That titanium trowel, that could double as a snow or sand peg.



Don't take the roll from your pack, remove the cardboard centre (UL- :wink: ) and the roll can be carried on end (freezerbag- UL :wink: ) and simply enough for each event drawn out from its centre.


Be nice to know beforehand how much you may need using this method :lol:


You're confusing me Corvus. I can't see how removing paper from one end or the other of the roll can have any effect on much you need, or how much is used :?

Methinks this topic is getting way poo technical, apart from this observation :


Did you not read about leaving the "mother roll " in the pack in a Zip lock Bag and taking enough for each event ??
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 5:08 pm

Nuts wrote:1 square for folders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua0YCM35cik

That's ridiculous!
Just move it!
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby corvus » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 5:19 pm

That is just the old joke about using a Tallyho Ciggie paper ,What do you do with the wee triangle bit you have?? :lol:
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Alittleruff » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 5:27 pm

Poo hole digger question... and 2 pages of info! That is so, so funny.

Personally, I just roll a section off a roll of toilet paper and pop it into a zip lock bag. Hey.... sometimes my two year old helps by running down the hall with the toilet paper roll laughing... I then roll it up (AGAIN!) and store it away.

God bless little helpers.

On another note, squishing the toilet paper so it doesn't roll as easily on the dispenser in the toilet slows down his progress.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby photohiker » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:05 pm

A few years ago now, I was in NZ and bought a pack of 'Cottonsoft 2GO' which consisted of a handful of ~30mm rolls of TP with no centre core and a light plastic dispenser. The Cottonsoft is long gone, but I just roll up TP to the diameter to fit the dispenser. Very handy. The advantage is that the roll never runs away from you and it cannot get crushed like the standard roll. The dispenser is all of 5-10g, so not much of a burden.

Cottonsoft still exists, but haven't been able to find their dispenser anywhere. Coleman has the same setup and available at Amazon: www.coleman.com/product/2000003436
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby nq111 » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:47 pm

Alittleruff wrote:Poo hole digger question... and 2 pages of info! That is so, so funny.


Hmmm, you haven't been hanging around these types of forums long, have you? :lol:

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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby DaveNoble » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:50 pm

Orion wrote:
icefest wrote:Using more paper that decomposes fast is preferable to leaving it there for ages. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart when it gets wet. Tissues will stay together. Once toilet paper fibres are dissipated and soiled, they decompose much faster than tissues.

You guys don't carry it out? That's standard operating procedure here in California. It's the law, actually.


I can understand that being a good practice high up in the Sierras where the ground is only free of snow for a couple of months of the year. But is it the "law"? I just checked wild camping regulations for Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks and they talk about digging deep holes away from water etc.

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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby corvus » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:36 pm

Got to be of some interest as we all do it and use it eh! :lol:
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby nq111 » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:49 pm

DaveNoble wrote:
Orion wrote:
icefest wrote:Using more paper that decomposes fast is preferable to leaving it there for ages. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart when it gets wet. Tissues will stay together. Once toilet paper fibres are dissipated and soiled, they decompose much faster than tissues.

You guys don't carry it out? That's standard operating procedure here in California. It's the law, actually.


I can understand that being a good practice high up in the Sierras where the ground is only free of snow for a couple of months of the year. But is it the "law"? I just checked wild camping regulations for Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks and they talk about digging deep holes away from water etc.

Dave


I recall there being bags and instructions at the trailheads for mountains such as Shasta but away from those we were digging holes as per usual (this was a number of years ago though).

I found the practice ok up high on the glaciers where the contents froze in the bag, stayed that way and were pretty much were inert. I certainly feel differently about the idea of carrying it in my pack here in the tropics!
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Orion » Sat 05 Dec, 2015 6:06 am

DaveNoble wrote:
Orion wrote:
icefest wrote:Using more paper that decomposes fast is preferable to leaving it there for ages. Toilet paper is designed to fall apart when it gets wet. Tissues will stay together. Once toilet paper fibres are dissipated and soiled, they decompose much faster than tissues.

You guys don't carry it out? That's standard operating procedure here in California. It's the law, actually.


I can understand that being a good practice high up in the Sierras where the ground is only free of snow for a couple of months of the year. But is it the "law"? I just checked wild camping regulations for Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks and they talk about digging deep holes away from water etc.


I was talking about TP and during the 5-6 months each year where one is camping on dry ground. Except for a few select areas where you have to pack out your poo the rule is that you dig a hole to bury it. But for some time now it's also been required that you carry out your toilet paper. I can't cite the regulation. But it's nearly always stressed by the ranger when picking up a permit. One problem with burying it is that it frequently gets dug up by animals and ends up blowing around the environment. Another is that takes longer than poo to decompose. I run into it on virtually every trip, despite the rule.

I used to spend time with a stick pushing poo-stained TP around in a small fire. I could never burn it all and the whole practice finally seemed like a big waste of time, and kind of gross too.

Anyway, the little double ziplock bag of used TP I carry out is pretty insignificant in terms of weight and not really that nasty either.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Orion » Sat 05 Dec, 2015 6:26 am

nq111 wrote:I found the practice ok up high on the glaciers where the contents froze in the bag, stayed that way and were pretty much were inert. I certainly feel differently about the idea of carrying it in my pack here in the tropics!

Carrying poo in a pack would demand an airtight container of some sort, at least for me it would. The various bags aren't fully sealable and they stink.

I was in Indian Creek, Utah car camping and rock climbing for a week. They had just instituted a carry out rule because the fragile desert soil was being thrashed by so many feet in search of someplace to dig a hole, as well as by the contents of the holes. So I had a few of those little "wag bag" thingies with me. I also had some sort of intestinal problem and ended up reusing each bag multiple times. Like ten times. And it was hot there during the day so the bags would visibly swell.

Let me tell you, opening one of those up in the hot sun to use yet again for like the eighth time was not a pleasant experience.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby simonm » Sat 05 Dec, 2015 8:41 am

Orion wrote:
nq111 wrote:I found the practice ok up high on the glaciers where the contents froze in the bag, stayed that way and were pretty much were inert. I certainly feel differently about the idea of carrying it in my pack here in the tropics!

Carrying poo in a pack would demand an airtight container of some sort, at least for me it would. The various bags aren't fully sealable and they stink.

I was in Indian Creek, Utah car camping and rock climbing for a week. They had just instituted a carry out rule because the fragile desert soil was being thrashed by so many feet in search of someplace to dig a hole, as well as by the contents of the holes. So I had a few of those little "wag bag" thingies with me. I also had some sort of intestinal problem and ended up reusing each bag multiple times. Like ten times. And it was hot there during the day so the bags would visibly swell.

Let me tell you, opening one of those up in the hot sun to use yet again for like the eighth time was not a pleasant experience.


Thanks for that descriptive post Orion - my coffee is somehow a little less enjoyable now.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Orion » Sat 05 Dec, 2015 8:49 am

simonm wrote:Thanks for that descriptive post Orion - my coffee is somehow a little less enjoyable now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxD2VmZiLJ0
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby simonm » Sat 05 Dec, 2015 10:36 am

Orion wrote:
simonm wrote:Thanks for that descriptive post Orion - my coffee is somehow a little less enjoyable now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxD2VmZiLJ0


:D. Now it's not so bad.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby sim1oz » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 5:36 pm

@alittleruf - I know where you are coming from - the $ vs weight saving equation can become a bit weird. Since we sometimes end up carrying some of our kids gear, and on occasion their entire pack, we are pretty incentivised to pack lighter. We are slowly chipping away at our weight... When I first looked (and the Aussie dollar was really high) the titanium trowel I found was from http://www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html. Great to know that there are more options now.

simonm ... I can also get in ti snow pegs, if people are interested.


I'm interested to find out more about the ti snow pegs!
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby simonm » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 8:34 pm

sim1oz wrote:
simonm ... I can also get in ti snow pegs, if people are interested.


I'm interested to find out more about the ti snow pegs!


The stakes I can get are 75mm x 125mm and weigh 18 grams. I have never used them or seen them first hand but its from the same manufacturer of the Deuce Scoop and other titanium gear that I stock so the quality should be there.

Here is a pic.

Snow_Stakes.jpg
Snow_Stakes.jpg (188.54 KiB) Viewed 17270 times
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 08 Dec, 2015 4:09 pm

OK so they come without guy wires but I suppose Zing-it would do for tent guys
How much each Simon?
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby simonm » Tue 08 Dec, 2015 5:18 pm

I would be happy to throw some glowire or Zingit on them. I think the price would be $18 or so, I would need to check that though. They retail for $12.50usd in the USA.
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Re: Small hole digger for Number 2's. Question.

Postby Nuts » Tue 08 Dec, 2015 5:28 pm

Alittleruff wrote:
Mark F- Thank you for your reply. It does make me feel very unwelcome in this section. I don't carry any extra tent pegs, and mine are nothing like the ones pictured. They are small, and used for my tent. I don't want to dismantle my tent to go to the toilet or if my children decide that they need to go. Keep in mind the reason why I want to go UL is not so that the pack I'm carrying is light, it is because I need to carry enough for at least two people. I thought people that do UL would be the best resource to have these kind of questions answered.


That snow peg these guys are using is pretty much the best option for digging 15cm holes in varied ground, ya need to get nice and deep! longer and a better shape than purpose built trowels iv'e seen, and more comfortable to use than other UL offerings by the looks. They lever well enough with care though if I was to design a titanium trowel of the right length and shape it would probably look just like that (and dare I say, of the UL mindset, have other uses as a bonus).
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