Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Victoria specific bushwalking discussion.
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Victoria specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby CaptainC » Thu 24 Dec, 2020 9:25 pm

Heaps of good camping spots around Cope Hut. I find it weird that people would pay to stay on a platform when there's great spots nearby.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Sat 26 Dec, 2020 10:20 am

CaptainC wrote:Heaps of good camping spots around Cope Hut. I find it weird that people would pay to stay on a platform when there's great spots nearby.

There is a perception among less experienced walkers and even those who are not familiar with the area that camping is only permitted on the platforms and requires a booking. The information guide on PV website points to the platforms. Some people also feel it is better being off the ground. I see them as ugly and intrusive to the landscape but PV says they are protecting the ground from being damaged by people pitching tents. You only have to look at the area around Cleve Cole hut to see dispersed tents have done no damage to the ground and it would be one of the most popular places.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Lophophaps » Mon 04 Jan, 2021 7:01 am

Walk_fat boy_walk wrote:With the advent of platforms at Cope and Dibbins, is it still possible to camp on the ground in those locales without a booking? If not, are there any alternatives apart from Derrick and Cope Saddle/Ryders Yards (noting camping at Wallaces is a no no)? I'm planning a walk that overlaps with the alpine crossing but don't like to lock in an itinerary so don't want to pre-book campsites. I'm happy to camp anywhere with a little bit of shelter and accessible water - such localities might be in abundance (as they are in KNP, for example) but i'm not familiar with the BHP area.

Thanks in advance


Cope Saddle is very exposed, and the SEC Hut is in poor condition. Xplora's advice is sound. If you give an idea of where you will be going then it may be possible to make suggestions about route and campsites.

Xplora wrote:There is a perception among less experienced walkers and even those who are not familiar with the area that camping is only permitted on the platforms and requires a booking. The information guide on PV website points to the platforms. Some people also feel it is better being off the ground. I see them as ugly and intrusive to the landscape but PV says they are protecting the ground from being damaged by people pitching tents. You only have to look at the area around Cleve Cole hut to see dispersed tents have done no damage to the ground and it would be one of the most popular places.


The PV information says that platforms must be booked, and this is true. However, the impression is that these are the only places where one can camp. I also find the platforms ugly. There are many places where tents have been put up for decades with no visible impact on the ground. In Cope Hut there were records of only a handful of parties doing the FHAC each year, not covering the cost of the platforms. At Blairs there was no record of any FHAC via Diamantina Spur.

There are large PV signs that FHAC is two nights, Cope Hut and Dibbins. It seems that PV has tacitly agreed that the three nights Cope-Tawonga Huts-Diamantina Spur is ill-advised and a poor return on investment. Also, Diamantina Spur is a slog, around 800 metres.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Mon 04 Jan, 2021 7:18 am

The camping platforms at Dibbin hut and Cope hut are ugly and to be avoided. Not enough people undertake the present route of the FHAC to make the proposed re development of the FHAC a viable cash cow/ glamping / glossy brochure trek to rival the Overland track in Tasmania. The Diamantina spur is a nut cracker and very demanding and not for glampers and total newbies.
Last edited by paidal_chalne_vala on Mon 04 Jan, 2021 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Mon 04 Jan, 2021 7:45 am

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:The camping platforms at Dibbin hut and Cope hut are ugly and to be avoided. Not enough people under the present route of the FHAC actually do the FHAC to make it a viable cash cow/ glamping / glossy brochure trek to rival the Overland track in Tasmania. The Diamantina spur is a nut cracker and very demanding and not for glampers and total newbies.

Do you have up to date information to support this claim? My information is the current walk is proving quite popular. Perhaps not as much as the Overland Track but it is growing. It concerns me to some extent this growth would be extrapolated to mean the walk can be varied to include supporting infrastructure in places which are not on the actual walk now. The walk, as it is now, is excellent for a range of people who may want the Alpine experience without it being too tough and can be marketed in a glossy brochure or website to the target market. It will still be hard for PV to justify significant expense on accommodation as those who may use that are only a small percentage of the target market currently doing the walk. There are glamping options already provided by commercial operators on this track so there is a market for it but on a small scale.

I can see there will be some tighter restrictions in the future around camping sites. Dibbins does not have enough sites away from the platforms to support large numbers and that could cause problems. The platforms were built away from the good camping sites and although unsightly, do provide additional spots which would not have otherwise been utilised.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby cammokazee » Sun 24 Jan, 2021 3:04 pm

Start of rant.
Those camping platforms are a disgrace & should be removed. They are only there for the blingers, the same people who don't put water on a campfire. That upper Cobungra River area is beautiful. A toilet there at Dibbins is bad enough, but it's better than people leaving *&%$#! paper everywhere. Anyway talking about *&%$#! paper, my 15yo son & l (at his request) just did the top 10 peaks in KNP just under 45km in a little over 12 hrs from Charlotte Pass, never seen so much of it scattered around these magnificent high peaks. What the hell is wrong with some people? Btw the steel walkway from Mt.Carruthers to Mt.Northcote... why not build it over the existing track? Seems dumb to me. I'm sure there is some reason, always is!

Back to Vic & Diamantina Spur, just perfect the way it is. My son reckons that it's harder than Hannels, although didn't help doing it on a hot summer afternoon. The upper West Kiewa and around Blairs is also beautiful, although the hut is not quite the sleeping quarters it once was. My mate spent many a night there in 'the family hut' driving the cattle up & down the mountain from dungeys. Them days are gone.

There always seems this need to have to change things whether it be for commercial benefits or not. Why can't some things just be left as they are.
l have lost almost complete faith in parks NSW & Vic in managing much at all. 'We are always poorly resourced' they say but continually promote visitors to these high country regions. Seems to be creating only more problems. Just cannot believe how much rubbish people leave & how many times l have had to put out a campfire. And this is just in high use areas. What needs to happen here? More education, big fines? I have said to parks so many times about using cameras to take happy snaps of campsites & car regos on daily checks of camping areas. But its like talking to a brick wall. Parks seem to be focussed on controlling people & people movements... can't go there, can't do this. Not much quality to what they do though. And bookings? What a joke... get rid of any booking system.

Oh and deer is out of control, rabbits appear to be having a bumper year too. Not even going to mention other ferals. And have l mentioned Indians, never seen so many of them around the mountains too.

I think its about time parks got a massive overhaul with everything becoming just far too complex and complicated.

Rant over. btw I'm sure this post will draw the wrath of countless armchair experts that exist on this forum. Can't wait for that.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby peregrinator » Sun 24 Jan, 2021 4:00 pm

Pretty hard to disagree with what you wrote. Other than your comment on parks management. With the funding cuts they have been enduring over many years, it's no wonder they are struggling. I won't belabour the point here—just search on "parks vic (or parks nsw) declining funding" and the figures are all available. It is pathetic. But no more so than the cuts in funding in many important sectors. Education, health, social housing, transport infrastructure, scientific research, etc. Meanwhile the lies continue about the private sector being so much better at getting results. Neo-liberal madness.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Lophophaps » Sun 24 Jan, 2021 4:31 pm

Toilets at all popular campsites are essential. PV has had far less funds than they needed for far too long. They cannot do everything for everyone, so there have to be priorities. Staff cannot be everywhere, so there are visitors with bad habits that go undetected, with no way of finding them. I cannot see how cameras could work. Feral species are on the agenda, but political ideology is stopping effective action at times. Witness feral horses in ACT, NSW and Victoria.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Sun 24 Jan, 2021 5:39 pm

cammokazee wrote:Start of rant. ...Rant over. btw I'm sure this post will draw the wrath of countless armchair experts that exist on this forum. Can't wait for that.


Not sure why you're blaming parks for the platforms? Blame rests with governments wanting to monetise our wild places. Parks have to work with both the direction and limited resources they get from governments. From an armchair expert.

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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 5:32 am

Please don't take this as wrath. Cameras for what purpose? Taking pictures of people at campsites to see if they are doing the wrong thing? That is illegal also if done covertly without a warrant and Parks would not get a warrant for that. Campfires not put out and toilet paper everywhere are my bug bears too. Feral pests are being controlled with regular deer culls. Rabbits seem to be over the latest virus release and breeding up again but what has this got to do with lots of Indians?

I am not fan of the camping platform but people do use them. Most think they have to but Dibbins does not have many good spots to pitch tents. With the numbers camping there now the platforms are providing for a group of people who would not sleep on the ground and that area would not be too good for a lot tents on the ground anyway. I would object strongly if platforms were put in around Cleve Cole hut or Tawonga huts. It seems to be isolated now to the FHAC which in some ways has been sacrificed to the hoards. I have mentioned this concept in another thread.

It is pretty clear you have never worked for the government. It can be frustrating but those on the ground do care about their parks and would love to do more without the constraints which have been created over time and added to every week. I will concede Parks Vic tend to be weak when it comes to taking a hard line or any type of enforcement. The most you are likely to get would be the wag of a stern finger. Why? Who really knows. They want to project a park friendly attitude or the amount of paperwork involved in taking action is not worth the very small fine the courts hand out. Authorised Park rangers could be provided with an infringement notice system but there is no provision for that as yet. You would then need to have 'authorised' rangers around when and where all the problems are. Weekends are when most visit the parks but constraints on weekend work mean they can't put rangers out in the field when most needed. This is all to do with penalty allowances.

The other thing about government agencies is how the money is divided up. You have budgeted money for everything and it does not cross over. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. There can be lots of money in one account but it cannot be spent on wages if not allocated to that. You can call me an armchair expert but I am also out in the field with the Parkies regularly. I know many of them on a personal basis as well. If you identify problems then you should speak to the local parkies.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Lophophaps » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 6:14 am

A few posts unrelated to the FHAC were moved to Bogong High Plains tracks
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31987&p=406200#p406200
Please avoid excessive quoting. I see no point in quoting yourself, or 300 words of quote with a 50 word reply.

Thank you.

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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Zapruda » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 7:07 am

cammokazee wrote:Start of rant.
Those camping platforms are a disgrace & should be removed. They are only there for the blingers, the same people who don't put water on a campfire. That upper Cobungra River area is beautiful. A toilet there at Dibbins is bad enough, but it's better than people leaving *&%$#! paper everywhere. Anyway talking about *&%$#! paper, my 15yo son & l (at his request) just did the top 10 peaks in KNP just under 45km in a little over 12 hrs from Charlotte Pass, never seen so much of it scattered around these magnificent high peaks. What the hell is wrong with some people? Btw the steel walkway from Mt.Carruthers to Mt.Northcote... why not build it over the existing track? Seems dumb to me. I'm sure there is some reason, always is!


The walkway that was re-aligned between Crarruthers and Lee is to protect the highly sensitive and rare Windswept Feldmark community. Building over the existing track was not an option. Rehabilitation is the priority. It worries me that you didn't know this before attempting the 10 peaks. I'm sure you, just like everyone else, walked right over the Feldmark without a clue.

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/topi ... nuary-2021

The ever growing popularity of the "10 peaks" walk is having a visible and negative effect on certain parts of the Main Range. There are footpads forming through Sphagnum and Feldmark. There is toilet paper and rubbish on peaks that used to be rarely visited. There are also noticeable areas where tents are setup far too regularly. People have to "conquer Kosi" as Thredbo marketing sickeningly say and people go off on their little adventure without a single idea of what they are walking on and the damage it is doing just so they can say the climbed Australia's 10 highest bumps.

There are a couple of commercial tours taking people to the ten peaks and I think it is reprehensible. Profiting while impacting that beautiful and sensitive area so regularly makes me feel ill.

cammokazee wrote:Oh and deer is out of control, rabbits appear to be having a bumper year too. Not even going to mention other ferals. And have l mentioned Indians, never seen so many of them around the mountains too.


And what does it matter what race of people decide to spend time in the mountains? This is such an unnecessary and xenophobic comment, especially after a sentence talking about feral animals. Disgusting
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby peregrinator » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 9:00 am

peregrinator wrote:Pretty hard to disagree with what you wrote. Other than your comment on parks management. With the funding cuts they have been enduring over many years, it's no wonder they are struggling. I won't belabour the point here—just search on "parks vic (or parks nsw) declining funding" and the figures are all available . . .


Reading the responses by Walk_fat boy_walk, Xplora and Zapruda, I need to change my statement above about points of disagreement with cammokazee. Having no knowledge at all of the ten peaks concept, I skipped over that section of the post. I should have queried the bizarre reference to "Indians". That came out of nowhere and I totally failed to consider the intended meaning. If it is what I imagine it is, then "disgusting" is an apt response.
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Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby cammokazee » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 9:29 am

And what does it matter what race of people decide to spend time in the mountains? This is such an unnecessary and xenophobic comment, especially after a sentence talking about feral animals. Disgusting

Have you seen the signs at toilets in KNP?
You get jumped on for not respecting other people & their cultures, but seriously how about respecting ours!

Am l out of line... probably, but can you honestly tell me they really give a crap (other than standing on the can for everyone else to enjoy later)?
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Zapruda » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 9:47 am

cammokazee wrote:You get jumped on for not respecting other people & their cultures, but seriously how about respecting ours!


Ours? I want no part in what ever bigoted culture you identify with.

There are people on this forum that come from all over the world and call this country home. Some of them are in this thread. Any more xenophobic talk like yours and ill ban you and your IP from ever posting on this forum again. Consider this a warning.

Lets keep the discussion on topic and civil.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby cammokazee » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 9:50 am

"ill ban you and your IP from ever posting on this forum again".

Oh please don't... how would l ever recover from that!

lol
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 11:33 am

peregrinator wrote:Reading the responses by Walk_fat boy_walk, Xplora and Zapruda, I need to change my statement above about points of disagreement with cammokazee. Having no knowledge at all of the ten peaks concept, I skipped over that section of the post. I should have queried the bizarre reference to "Indians". That came out of nowhere and I totally failed to consider the intended meaning. If it is what I imagine it is, then "disgusting" is an apt response.


I was not assuming or making a judgement, just asking for clarification before making a judgement. Judgement made now. The easy answer to the toilet problem is take a pooh tube.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby wildwalks » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 12:28 pm

Zapruda wrote:This is such an unnecessary and xenophobic comment, especially after a sentence talking about feral animals. Disgusting


One thing I really love about this forum is how the community self moderates - pointing out when someone's behaviour in helpful ways. Several people did it very well on this page.
THANKYOU especially to Xplora, peregrinator and Zapruda

Thankfully our moderation team rarely has to step in on issues like this as most people respond well when the community points out behaviour not welcome in our community.
Today (as Admin) I made an easy (but still unpleasant) decision to ban a member for making then defending a comment that will never be acceptable on this site.
I have chosen to leave the thread intact to demonstrate that our community supports decency - but I will not quote the offending text or mention the poster by name.

Thanks again

Matt :)
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 27 Jan, 2021 8:13 pm

Unless you have climbed Mt. Kosi via Hannel's spur then you are kidding yourself !. I am sorry that the ten KNP peaks walking craze has been spread by the www. The Main range is a very sensitive eco system and cannot sustain the increasing human traffic accessing its most sensitive areas.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Sat 04 Sep, 2021 12:49 pm

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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Baeng72 » Sat 04 Sep, 2021 2:24 pm

So, this is the bit up Diamantina Spur and Razorback?
I'd better get up there before they put in steps and hand rails.
We won't be getting out until at least 80% eligible vaxxed (about 65% of population), so November?
At least snow will be gone...
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby stry » Sat 04 Sep, 2021 8:18 pm

Xplora wrote:Update, tenders called

https://www.tenders.vic.gov.au/tender/view?id=234143


I can't find any details in that link of the details of what is actually being tendered for.

Any idea where that info may be, or how it can be obtained ?
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Baeng72 » Sat 04 Sep, 2021 8:34 pm

stry wrote:
I can't find any details in that link of the details of what is actually being tendered for.

Any idea where that info may be, or how it can be obtained ?

The bit I was referring to:
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan outlines the proposed 57 kilometre, multi day route which will take in the Diamantina Spur and Razorback with an optional ascent of Mount Feathertop, Victoria’s second highest peak. The Alpine Crossing links the Falls Creek and Mt Hotham Alpine Resorts.

https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/projects/f ... t-planning
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby stry » Sun 05 Sep, 2021 8:16 am

Baeng72 wrote:
stry wrote:
I can't find any details in that link of the details of what is actually being tendered for.

Any idea where that info may be, or how it can be obtained ?

The bit I was referring to:
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan outlines the proposed 57 kilometre, multi day route which will take in the Diamantina Spur and Razorback with an optional ascent of Mount Feathertop, Victoria’s second highest peak. The Alpine Crossing links the Falls Creek and Mt Hotham Alpine Resorts.

https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/projects/f ... t-planning


Thanks for that, but the document does not provide the details that would be needed by anyone submitting a tender. EG - Location, number, and specification of buildings. Timelines would also be necessary for tender preparation.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Xplora » Sun 05 Sep, 2021 10:47 am

There is a contact person and email. Perhaps you need to request details for the tender that way.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby CraigVIC » Sun 05 Sep, 2021 12:59 pm

Hi stry, it says the details available from the 27th, appears to be advance notice of the actual tender docs being released.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Mon 13 Sep, 2021 6:41 pm

This FHAC caper is not going away. You can register to attend a meeting about it. I will try my best to be there on October 27th and register my opposition to the whole thing , again.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby stry » Tue 14 Sep, 2021 7:19 am

Thanks Craig and Explora.
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Tue 14 Sep, 2021 9:15 am

The RFT is for design of accommodation at the identified nodes as per master plan.
Attachments
F2H PROJECT SHEET.pdf
(1.27 MiB) Downloaded 88 times
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Re: Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

Postby Lophophaps » Tue 14 Sep, 2021 11:04 am

Oh dear, McGregor Coxall again. This is in the PDF
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing is Australia’s world class alpine walking experience that captures the essence of the Australian Alps - the solitude, the seasons, the breathtaking beauty and the stories of the high country. McGregor Coxall was invited by Parks Victoria, on behalf of Tourism North East, Tourism Victoria and Regional Development Victoria for landscape architecture and master planning design services for the proposed Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing [FHAC] in the Alpine National Park in Victoria's north east. The walk will conserve, protect and celebrate the Alpine National Park's natural and cultural values, adding to the park's already significant contribution to the Australian tourism industry. McGregor Coxall is leading a process to create a strategic plan and implementation strategy which considers regional and commercial tourism, the establishment of experiences on offer by the FHAC, and communicates the project vision and key principles.

A few points
1 FHAC is not a world-class walking experience. It's a nice walk and I've done all of it many times summer and winter for 50 years.

2 With thousands of people purportedly there according to McGregor Coxall (false, they lied) how can there be solitude? This is especially stupid given that they want even more people to visit.

3 The walk as planned "will conserve, protect and celebrate the Alpine National Park's natural and cultural values". False! The walk as planned will detract from natural and cultural values.

4 On the PDF, spell Jaithmathang. Red Robin Battery is a fair detour if climbing Diamantina Spur. They are still after a lodge or campsite on Diamantina Spur and platforms at Federation. The risk from bushfires is significant. The map-elevation graphic is insane.

5 Not happy.
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