Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

For all high tech electronic equipment including GPS, PLB, chargers, phones, computers, software. Discussion of simple electrical devices such as torches, belongs in the main 'Equipment' forum.

Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby ChrisJHC » Wed 06 May, 2020 10:19 pm

Not sure if you've been following this, but Starlink is a satellite system that aims to provide ubiquitous, global internet access.
This means that, unless you choose to do so, you need never be disconnected.
Part of this fills me with dread, however I can see some practical applications:
1. Up to date weather reports
2. Keeping those at home informed
3. Bushfire updates
4. etc, etc, etc[/list]

As a minimum, it's likely to kill the market for InReach, SPOT, etc.
Possibly also GPS and PLB.

What are other people's thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink
ChrisJHC
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat 25 Feb, 2017 8:22 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby crollsurf » Wed 06 May, 2020 11:17 pm

I think it will make bushwalking easier and safer but one of the reasons you go walking, is to get away from all that technology. At least they don't make a noise overhead like planes.

I'd never heard of Starlink before a group on them flew overhead one night. Made for a good shot but I didn't know what to make of them at the time.

Starlink90 _RJC0214.jpg
SpaceX Starlink Satellite Train over Ku-ring-gai Chase NP
User avatar
crollsurf
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1517
Joined: Tue 07 Mar, 2017 10:07 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby ribuck » Thu 07 May, 2020 2:09 am

ChrisJHC wrote:As a minimum, it's likely to kill the market for InReach, SPOT, etc.

I don't think it will kill the market for InReach etc. Starlink internet will be expensive. A web page easily be a megabyte, whereas InReach is sending a couple of hundred bytes at a time so a satellite of a given bandwidth can handle many more InReach devices at once.
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby ChrisJHC » Thu 07 May, 2020 5:20 pm

My thinking is that, if people can send a text message from anywhere in the world, they will not buy and carry an additional device just to do that.
Even if it is an expensive data plan it will probably still be cheaper than a dedicated device.
ChrisJHC
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat 25 Feb, 2017 8:22 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby Gadgetgeek » Thu 07 May, 2020 7:29 pm

It remains to be seen what starlink ends up being useful for. While it might end up replacing the iridium system, Its still being disputed by many groups. Also we have no good info on reliability yet which is where the other systems are at least known quantities. Also, to my understanding they need to run a lot of satellites before they achieve any appreciable coverage, where as the other systems can cover more ground with fewer. Ultimately I think its an ego move on Elon's part and so I don't think its going to end well. With Iridium having a new batch of satalites and a much more trustworthy set of caretakers, I think they hold the international communications market. I doubt starlink is going to be covering the oceans reliably.

As far as I know, they cannot replace GPS, GLONAS, Galileo as they won't have the reliability of orbit. So that leaves them with very few options. The other factor for under-served or disaster areas is project Loon, and they actually seem to be doing good things without annoying anyone as badly, and can operate in areas with a much lower cost. It wouldn't shock me if we get to a stage where certain parks have either balloons up, or capacity to launch balloons in times of need.
Gadgetgeek
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1163
Joined: Sun 23 Sep, 2012 4:10 pm
Region: Queensland
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby Huntsman247 » Fri 08 May, 2020 10:32 pm

I was a fan until I saw what they actually look like in the sky. Not impressed anymore. Caught the tail end of them but the whole spectacle took quite a few minutes to pass. Very soon the nights sky's just won't be the same. Benefits at what cost?
Hopefully the video works. http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5eb550289fcc9/PPS13702.MP4
User avatar
Huntsman247
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed 22 Mar, 2017 10:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 17 May, 2020 4:49 pm

At first I thought this was interesting. I was expecting the visual pollution to be similar to other satellites..ie barely noticeable.

Then I saw a YouTube video of naked eye observation from a town.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ej3IV_WW0LE

It's absolutely disgraceful... How in hell was this allowed..

Once musk's thousands of satellites are launched can we expect constant satelite trains over the night sky?
User avatar
wildwanderer
Auctorita modica
Auctorita modica
 
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue 02 May, 2017 8:42 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby tastrax » Sun 17 May, 2020 5:50 pm

Cheers - Phil

OSM Mapper
User avatar
tastrax
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1920
Joined: Fri 28 Mar, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: What3words - epic.constable.downplayed
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: RETIRED! - Parks and Wildlife Service
Region: Tasmania

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 17 May, 2020 7:35 pm

SpaceX's program has already been objected to by astronomers and astrophysicists for their pollution of the visual above our head.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/24/2119 ... my-coating

I don't see the criticality of this network as there are alternate solutions, but not denying a need for global communication connection. The low orbit design at this stage is a real environmental concern. In due course and won't be a surprise, for the $10B outlay of the full project in 2018 accounting, the monetisation won't make the service much cheaper than alternate solutions by that time.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6913
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby AlfieJones » Sun 17 May, 2020 10:35 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Then I saw a YouTube video of naked eye observation from a town.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ej3IV_WW0LE

This video is fake BTW.
AlfieJones
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 14 Apr, 2020 6:03 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby ChrisJHC » Sun 17 May, 2020 10:39 pm

The video may be fake but you can clearly see them with the naked eye. I was a long way from any light pollution but they were very noticeable and took a long time to pass.
ChrisJHC
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat 25 Feb, 2017 8:22 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 18 May, 2020 11:06 am

AlfieJones wrote:This video is fake BTW.


Good to know. Thanks. Where did you learn this?

Reading a bit more on the project. https://astronomynow.com/2020/05/05/spa ... nk-launch/

SpaceX says its the satelite deployment phase where they are manoeuvring to orbit, that they are the most visible to the naked eye. Once in orbit they are harder to spot. They also deploying solar blinds and changing satelite angle to the sun to minimise reflectivity. Musk says the goal is satelites deployed after mid year will be much harder to see with naked eye.

If accurate.. that sounds good. Doesn't help astronomers as much though..but is something.
User avatar
wildwanderer
Auctorita modica
Auctorita modica
 
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue 02 May, 2017 8:42 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby ribuck » Mon 18 May, 2020 5:49 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Doesn't help astronomers as much though

Most astronomy imaging is now digital. If they don't already do so, I expect that astronomers will start to use software to switch off light gathering for the brief moments when any satellite crosses their area of interest.
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby Aushiker » Mon 18 May, 2020 8:34 pm

This article popped up today in IT News. Might be of interest ....
User avatar
Aushiker
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon 21 Nov, 2011 10:22 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Region: Western Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby AlfieJones » Mon 18 May, 2020 9:38 pm

wildwanderer wrote:
AlfieJones wrote:This video is fake BTW.


Good to know. Thanks. Where did you learn this?


The shaky stabilized video is typical photo shopped videos, the lasers are faked as they would likely not be visible to the naked eyes or camera, plus they only point towards other satellites and do not shine towards earth, meaning they would be impossible to view, plus the fact it has a Slovenian description makes it sketchy. Its often hard to spot faked videos but after you see a few you can reasonably tell them apart.

I've also heard that spacex will coat all their new satellites with a non reflective paint which will help make them far less notable from the ground, which should solve or at least reduce this problem.
AlfieJones
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 14 Apr, 2020 6:03 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Starlink and its impact on bushwalking

Postby Saffrett » Sun 19 Jul, 2020 10:42 am

I don't think it will ever be helpful to bush walkers. The receiver is the size of a pizza box. Would be great if they made a small portable dish that ran on usb and plug in to you phone.This is aimed at providing home internet to remote towns and the middle of nowhere. Its also aimed at planes and ships. They haven't even turned the laser links on yet.
Saffrett
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 04 May, 2019 2:19 pm
Region: Queensland
Gender: Male


Return to Techno-Babble

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest