Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.
Forum rules
TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 May, 2022 9:23 am

A massive FAIL in capital letters and hi-lighted in red for emphasis.

I had the new 12P lavvu erected at the Horseyards camping area at Falls Creek.
Usual site selection for some shielding from the wind, all pegs down and secure and all guys out and tensioned but not overly taut.
I woke up in the middle of the nite with fabric flapping in my face and a heck of a lot of noise and when I got my headlamp on and switched on I could see a massive bow in the central pole, as I was looking at it, it suddenly snapped.
So there I was in my sleeping clothing haveing to find shell clothing and boots while half asleep and etc.
Long story shortened the Helsport 32mm central pole seems to be cheap architectural alloy and not the high specification alloy you would expect in a winter rated tent that is 3 metres tall at the apex.
Pole has failed at the midpoint, where the greatest stress would be.
I made an expedient repair but packed up the tent as it now needs a zipper repair also.
Chris from Toms Outdoors is sympathetic but so far I've not heard back from him about warranty replacement of even replacement cost for a spare section.
Asking for help with options as there is not much point in having a group tent that isn't strong enough for the conditions it will be used in.
I just checked the BOM for the maximum winds and even the maximum gusts were not all that strong, about 28knots and even adding in 50% extra for local conditions that isn't all that strong, certainly not at all unusual for winds on the High Plains to be greater than that.
Attachments
IMG_2250.JPG
Snapped pole
IMG_2250.JPG (138.72 KiB) Viewed 4083 times
IMG_2254.JPG
Expedient repair
IMG_2254.JPG (89.38 KiB) Viewed 4083 times
IMG_2251.JPG
A hammer, a spare 19mm pole section and duct tape
IMG_2251.JPG (102.66 KiB) Viewed 4083 times
IMG_2258.JPG
Close enough to the midpoint of the central;l pole section
IMG_2258.JPG (107.45 KiB) Viewed 4083 times
IMG_2259.JPG
End view of the pole
IMG_2259.JPG (103.67 KiB) Viewed 4083 times
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby johnrs » Mon 09 May, 2022 9:35 am

Heh Moondog
The parent company was very helpful with my broken Ringstind poles in the past,
small family company, send them an email to faraway Norway!
Best wishes
John
johnrs
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 6:09 pm
Region: New South Wales

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 May, 2022 10:04 am

I just spoke with Chris from Toms Outdoors, he has a replacement ordered.
But the strength of the pole really has me bothered and I need to get a "best solution" worked out quickly.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 May, 2022 11:23 am

I was thinking of adding a secondary sleeve on the outside but locally the next largest diametre I can get is 40 * 1.6mm which would be a sloppy slip fit.
If I sleeved it externally I'd use a length that would cover more than just the section that failed, each section being 740mm long. Metric naturally because Helsport is a Scandinavian company.
Thoughts on that idea?
Or would adding a layer of carbon fibre work better? Shrink wrap first to avoid the reaction factor and then a layer or two of CF and epoxy? I have a small length of woven sleeve here, enough to sleeve three sections in a single layer.
CF is not all that robust against impact so would I need to add a protection layer of ordinary fibreglass too?
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Stew63 » Mon 09 May, 2022 7:29 pm

Moondog55 wrote:A massive FAIL in capital letters and hi-lighted in red for emphasis.

I had the new 12P lavvu erected at the Horseyards camping area at Falls Creek.
Usual site selection for some shielding from the wind, all pegs down and secure and all guys out and tensioned but not overly taut.
I woke up in the middle of the nite with fabric flapping in my face and a heck of a lot of noise and when I got my headlamp on and switched on I could see a massive bow in the central pole, as I was looking at it, it suddenly snapped.
So there I was in my sleeping clothing haveing to find shell clothing and boots while half asleep and etc.
Long story shortened the Helsport 32mm central pole seems to be cheap architectural alloy and not the high specification alloy you would expect in a winter rated tent that is 3 metres tall at the apex.
Pole has failed at the midpoint, where the greatest stress would be.
I made an expedient repair but packed up the tent as it now needs a zipper repair also.
Chris from Toms Outdoors is sympathetic but so far I've not heard back from him about warranty replacement of even replacement cost for a spare section.
Asking for help with options as there is not much point in having a group tent that isn't strong enough for the conditions it will be used in.
I just checked the BOM for the maximum winds and even the maximum gusts were not all that strong, about 28knots and even adding in 50% extra for local conditions that isn't all that strong, certainly not at all unusual for winds on the High Plains to be greater than that.


That is really poor form from a product I would have thought was 200% top quality in extreme conditions (which conditions weren't).
Stew63
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat 03 Mar, 2012 2:53 am
Location: Eltham, Victoria
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 May, 2022 8:34 am

I wasn't impressed at the time and I'm even lass impressed that Helsport will not provide a warranty replacement.
Chris at Toms has been very good about sourcing a section tho but a quick phone call yesterday to consumer affairs says that it is obviously "Not fit for purpose" and I could pursue a claim if I wanted too.
I don't wish to do that with a retailer who has provided me with excellent service over the years.
This leaves me with a problem as I do want to use the tent as a group shelter on the high plains for a proposed camp away from PV for at least one trip and I want to be able to sell it on with a clear conscience afterwards.
So how best to make it strong enough without adding too much extra weight?
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 May, 2022 9:12 am

So the stuff I had in the shed is now assembled. I'll grab a couple of Lynch pins to substitute for the Screws holding it in place.
I just hope it will be strong enough as a short term solution. I'll need some end caps and a way of reducing the top down to 32mm as the tents top cup is sized for a 32mm pole but I reckon I can use part of the broken section for that
Attachments
IMG_2262.JPG
The completed substitute centre pole
IMG_2262.JPG (145.44 KiB) Viewed 3959 times
IMG_2263.JPG
40 into 44
IMG_2263.JPG (127.51 KiB) Viewed 3959 times
IMG_2264.JPG
Again 40 into 44 but at the other end
IMG_2264.JPG (149.51 KiB) Viewed 3959 times
IMG_2265.JPG
Broken pole piece inserted into the 40mm showing the difference if diametre
IMG_2265.JPG (121.87 KiB) Viewed 3959 times
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 May, 2022 9:25 am

Just an FYI for everybody
The poles I have are 6063 T5 alloy
Not really structural but I suspect that is what Helsport have supplied
EDIT
Knowing the alloy and the column dimensions I plugged the numbers into an online calculator and the results there-of say that the 40mm tube is about twice as stiff/ strong as the 32mm and the 44mm is approximately three times as stiff/strong
Failure of the factory pole seems to be around 2678kN using the calculator but for the 44mm it calculates as 7259kN
This isn't taking into account the layering of fibreglass and carbon fibre on the central section
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby johnrs » Tue 10 May, 2022 9:53 am

Heh Moondog
Please contact Helsport directly my experience with pole replacement was good.
Best wishes
John
johnrs
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 6:09 pm
Region: New South Wales

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 May, 2022 10:25 am

They haven't responded so far John.
In the meantime I'll continue to work with the retailer

EDIT
I just got a response from Helsport
Basically the customer service rep told me to F*** Off; I am not impressed.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 22 May, 2022 10:00 am

Even less impressed with Helsport customer service now; I just found out that the cost of a replacement single section is $125- to my door and only $10- is internal shipping cost.
My mistake for getting Chris to order it before I found out the cost.
If there had been any information on the Helsport website that the supplied pole was 6063 architectural aluminium and not structural 6061 I may not have purchased the tent or perhaps I'd have reinforced the centre sections before taking it into the Alps.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby stry » Tue 24 May, 2022 8:39 am

I don't know about Geelong, but there are at least a couple of sources of various grades and sizes of alloy tube around Melbourne. Minimum purchase may be a 6 metre length.

I'd be starting from scratch, buying the size and grade tube that I wanted, and then cannibalising any necessary fittings from the broken pole (or making them) to make a complete replacement.

Slip fit joints shouldn't be a problem with the appropriate diameter plug and outer tube.

That will work well and look neat.
stry
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 6:28 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 24 May, 2022 10:44 am

stry wrote:I don't know about Geelong, but there are at least a couple of sources of various grades and sizes of alloy tube around Melbourne. Minimum purchase may be a 6 metre length.

I'd be starting from scratch, buying the size and grade tube that I wanted, and then cannibalising any necessary fittings from the broken pole (or making them) to make a complete replacement.

Slip fit joints shouldn't be a problem with the appropriate diameter plug and outer tube.

That will work well and look neat.

Yes I have been looking and when I sell the tent after this winter I may decide to make and supply a new pole but this season I'll use what I have made.
I'm angry with Helsports attitude that supplying a pole that isn't strong enough seems to be OK and the customers problem, not the makers.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby rcaffin » Tue 31 May, 2022 5:40 pm

I would be inclined to change to a 100% carbon fibre pole. Yes, you would have to MYOG, but you could pick what diameter you want. CF would be much better than 6063.

Cheers
Roger
User avatar
rcaffin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Big problem with Helsport tent pole

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 02 Jun, 2022 9:38 am

rcaffin wrote:I would be inclined to change to a 100% carbon fibre pole. Yes, you would have to MYOG, but you could pick what diameter you want. CF would be much better than 6063.

Cheers
Roger

I'd appreciate some of your thoughts on diametre and lay-up Roger [ and others] as I'll need to buy materials in to do it properly.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10607
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male


Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests