Thermal Conductivity Chart

Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.
Forum rules
TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby commando » Thu 01 Apr, 2021 10:38 pm

Type Thermal Conductivity- k -(W/m K)
Aluminium 232
Copper 413
Gold 327
Cast Iron 52
Nickel 106
Silver 403
Carbon Steel 43
Tin 73.3
Titanium 24.5
Tungsten 197
Stainless Steel 304 14.4
Nickel 106
Platinum 72.4
Inconel 15

Thermal Conductivity chart of common metals reveals some surprising results.

Whilst Titanium is light, the only worse metal conductivity is stainless steel
with Silver being the second highest and therefore the most useful

Cook pots should be made of pure Silver as the most efficient usage for hikers where fuel is always at a premium.
commando
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue 14 Jul, 2020 10:32 pm
Region: Australia

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby ribuck » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 6:01 am

But titanium is strong, so it can be made thinner than silver, which mitigates this.
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby JohnnoMcJohnno » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 8:19 am

Gold isn't too bad, and it's the most malleable metal so you can beat it too a thinner sheet than the others.
JohnnoMcJohnno
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed 03 Apr, 2019 8:25 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby Warin » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 8:58 am

Most of the heat is on the bottom of the pot .. that is where you want both thermal conductivity to spread the heat evenly.

You also want light weight, cheap and strong.

A Ti pot with an aluminum base would be good. Balance of weight, performance and cost. :wink:
User avatar
Warin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 12:31 pm

Copper pot all the way, a shame it's toxic, so lets plate the copper with Electrum and get the best of all possible pots.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10102
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby stry » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 5:50 pm

Duossal ? S/S inner with aluminium over the outside. Used to be available from Trangia and IIRC Optimus.

A tad heavy for walkers but superb performance.

The inefficiency of entirely S/S cookware is far worse than the figures suggest. In part, I think, because of the thickness differences already mentioned.

I did boil tests with a TI pot and one of my old aluminium billies and time to boil an equivalent amount of water was, to my surprise, close enough that I couldn't decisively pick a winner. The aluminium was much thicker than the TI.

Did the same test with the entirely SS post that I had hoped to use, and (again, IIRC) time to boil was 3x the other two. May have been 2x, but my failing memory favours 3x. Why would anyone bother - triple your fuel usage and still have hot spots when cooking. :?
stry
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 6:28 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby GregG » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 9:54 pm

Thanks Commando. Your chart says my cast iron cook set has a conductivity of 52 which explains why I have to use so much fuel. I'll swap over to silver.
GregG
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Sat 09 Nov, 2019 6:44 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Old bushie
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby commando » Fri 02 Apr, 2021 10:19 pm

If it wasn't for the anti Alzheimer brigade aluminium should still be on top for hikers with high thermal conductivity cheap robust and lightweight
commando
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue 14 Jul, 2020 10:32 pm
Region: Australia

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby ribuck » Sat 03 Apr, 2021 5:22 am

I don't think thermal conductivity of the pot is the limiting factor. With a temperature difference between the flame and water of almost 2000 degrees, the amount of heat the stove can drive through that thin piece of metal will be limited by the output capacity of the stove rather than by the thermal resistance of the metal.
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby Kickinghorse » Sat 03 Apr, 2021 6:26 am

Thanks Commando. Your chart says my cast iron cook set has a conductivity of 52 which explains why I have to use so much fuel. I'll swap over to silver.

Or Gold, I can see a thriving trade in purloined cook pots 8)
Kickinghorse
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun 18 Nov, 2018 11:56 am
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby icefest » Sat 03 Apr, 2021 8:44 pm

ribuck wrote:I don't think thermal conductivity of the pot is the limiting factor. With a temperature difference between the flame and water of almost 2000 degrees, the amount of heat the stove can drive through that thin piece of metal will be limited by the output capacity of the stove rather than by the thermal resistance of the metal.

Must be talking Fahrenheit, because if you're gettin 2000°C on your stove, you could sell that to any backyard forge.
Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful.
User avatar
icefest
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 3947
Joined: Fri 27 May, 2011 11:19 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby ribuck » Mon 05 Apr, 2021 11:04 am

icefest wrote:if you're gettin 2000°C on your stove, you could sell that to any backyard forge.

The flame temperature of isobutane is 1975°C. So the temperature is plenty high for a backyard forge, even though the heat output isn't.

https://www.elgas.com.au/blog/1688-buta ... roleum-gas
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby Al M » Mon 05 Apr, 2021 3:44 pm

Ti vs ali material cost is about x10 but does it still need to cost $30 for a large mug or is it marketing rip off? Yet on eBay from China Ti products not that much cheaper.

The small amount of camp time using Ali pots shouldn’t present a significant Alzheimer risk over one’s life span :)
Al M
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 2:15 am
Region: Western Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby wayno » Mon 05 Apr, 2021 4:08 pm

Al M wrote:Ti vs ali material cost is about x10 but does it still need to cost $30 for a large mug or is it marketing rip off? Yet on eBay from China Ti products not that much cheaper.

The small amount of camp time using Ali pots shouldn’t present a significant Alzheimer risk over one’s life span :)


its extremely expensive to refine Titanium, it takes a large amount of energy to do so.
from the land of the long white clouds...
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8698
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby crollsurf » Mon 05 Apr, 2021 4:40 pm

Definitely some camping manufacturers have spent time researching this. From experience with a GSI Pinnacle Soloist, it has many features I like but the Pinnacle technology is big step up compared to Ti, when it comes to heat conductivity and distribution. Distribution equals quicker cook times and less chance of bottom burn. And no one wants to scrub a burnt bottom!
https://gsioutdoors.com/pinnacle-technology
Their not giving away what exactly that technology is but it's based on an Aluminum pot (good conductivity), coated with a non-stick Teflon+ coating. Doubt there is any Silver in the coating, but it is more than just Teflon.

I do take a Ti pot for an overnighter because I can scrap/clean any burnt food when I get home, but for longer walks, I prefer something that is more fuel efficient and easy to clean, even if it's a bit heavier. The GSI Soloist isn't by any means heavy.
User avatar
crollsurf
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1517
Joined: Tue 07 Mar, 2017 10:07 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Thermal Conductivity Chart

Postby Orion » Mon 05 Apr, 2021 7:29 pm

Is there any evidence that Ti pots are less efficient than Al pots at heating water? I wouldn't be surprised if it were the the other way around. Heating rate, environmental conditions, and pot geometry are far more important when it comes to fuel efficiency.

The big problem with Ti cookware is hot spots that result in burned food. They're horrible for frying. I remember well the first time I tried to pop popcorn in a Ti pot. I had to learn a new technique.

I prefer Al because of cost and versatility. But it's hard to find small, lightweight Al pots designed for bushwalking. That's the only reason I own Ti cookware.
Orion
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: Mon 02 Feb, 2009 12:33 pm
Region: Other Country


Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bam, Google [Bot], Heremeahappy1 and 17 guests