Headtorches

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Re: Headtorches

Postby stry » Sat 15 Aug, 2020 8:21 pm

Al M wrote:
stry wrote:
Lamont wrote:https://www.liteshop.com.au/content/nitecore-nu25-multi-light-360-lumen-lightweight-rechargeable-led-headlamp/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz-yVz6GK6wIVz9eWCh34mA21EAAYASAAEgKcdPD_BwE

BTW - Always have two lights. When the one being used goes out without warning, finding and fitting the spare batteries can be very challenging.


Never had a head torch fail in all the many years of hiking and backpacking travel, especially good quality lights with modern reliability, bulbs that rarely burn out. Having two lights is really unnecessary and adds to gear list and complexity.

As backup there is always the mobile phone light, another reason not to double up.


Batteries, Al, batteries :wink: . Nothing to do with hardware failure ( although that can happen, albeit rarely). Most modern lights are regulated to ensure full voltage up to the point that they are exhausted and the light completely and abruptly ceases. Try getting out of that situation when off track on a moonless night. Yes, phone can work, if you are in the 99.99% of people who never move without one, but I still prefer the spare lamp. I think it's called the E-lite.
I always make sure the spare is easily accessable before setting off in the dark. If one wants to walk off track using a phone, I would suggest that the phone should be similarly readily accessable.

I had a headlamp go abruptly flat in a farm paddock recently. No moon. Pitch black. No phone or spare light on me, because the white ute was only 10-15 yards away. Finding the ute was very challenging and although amusing, I was very aware that if I went too far the wrong way, or walked past the ute, I could be spending quite a bit of time in the paddock. :lol:
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Al M » Sat 15 Aug, 2020 10:43 pm

No common experienced and practical hiker’s gear checklist suggests to have a spare torch, spare batteries yes but even that not really needed these days with modern torch switch lock mode or USB charger from power bank. Doubling up and unnecessary for OP’s OLT 5 day hike with no night walking planned.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 15 Aug, 2020 10:56 pm

Well Al speaking from painful experience I disagree. Some redundancy of safety gear is prudent and nothing is totally reliable.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Al M » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 4:15 am

Here’s several of many very well informed OLT gear list examples similar to just about every other list for popular trek routes around the world with no mention of spare torch.

https://www.trektasmania.com.au/wp-cont ... r-List.pdf

https://tasmaniangeographic.com/gear-fo ... and-track/

https://icetrek.com/uploads/trips/Equip ... .pages.pdf

https://www.backpacker.com/skills/pacif ... cking-list

https://ebctrekguide.com/everest-base-c ... cking-list

etc.....
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 7:12 am

I could post dozens of links advising the opposite.
POV and experience can give different answers to the same question, there is no single "Right" answer.
You don't have to agree but the OP needs to be aware and make up their own mind.
I admit my own back-up is a bit of a dinosaur at 43 grams but it was cheap.
I haven;t broken a shoe lace in the last 30 years but I still carry spare shoe laces.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby north-north-west » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 8:29 am

Given that my headlamp is usually tucked away in the middle of the pack, I've taken to carrying a 1xAAA led light in either the camera bag or a pocket. Small, light, easy to reach and adequate for pitching the tent if a site isn't found until it's dark. Reorganising the packing would eliminate the necessity, but I've never been into gram counting.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Al M » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 12:03 pm

Broken shoe laces you just tie a knot where it broke and if you keep an eye on potentially frayed ones before the trip that would suffice. I have a thin chord in my tent roof to hang wet clothes, which is the emergency shoe lace and other uses if needed.

It’s not only about gram counting, which can make a significant difference of 3-4+kg with those who choose that well recommended route with significant affect on physical effort safety and performance, than having an unnecessarily complicated and bulky pack. In arid area hikes 3-4kg saving is needed for water and more food for those extended 5 day hikes, which will save your life or close to it.

I’m in the light pack weight class not ultralight and chose this route about 10 years ago after about 20 years and never looked back. I can now keep up with other hikers with about 20-30% more range and reserve ability, the physical effort is much less, sense of freedom greater and physically safer from all aspects like risk of middle aged stress heart attack, muscle strains going up hill, shoulders, trips/falls, knees and back pain, water supply goes further because less effort or carry less of it with reduced weight because of that. For people of lower body muscle mass and strength and those who are overweight it’s a significant factor to improve performance and safety than being burdened by a heavier than necessary pack weight for contingency events that are very unlikely to occur and there is a work-around for it if it does occur.

I come across more people on trails who are mostly inexperienced, somewhat unfit and overburdened physically by a heavy backpack with higher risk of failure and problems than those being stumped by lack of doubled up unnecessary gear.

If there are common hiker lists recommending one to double up on gear let’s see them.

Hike smarter not harder. :roll:
Last edited by Al M on Sun 16 Aug, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 12:29 pm

HYOH
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Re: Headtorches

Postby stry » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 1:11 pm

Al, I understand and acknowledge what you are saying about established treks, and the OLT, and no planned night walking.

I don't know why you have chosen to expand the spare headlamp issue into duplication of other gear, but you are determinedly ignoring my points - OFF TRACK - BATTERY EXHAUSTED BY USE.

Here endeth the epistle.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Neo » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 1:12 pm

Personal choice. A keyring light would be only 10 or 20 grams.
Most weight savings come from the big 3 or big 4. Then by gram pinching other gear and not taking too many extras.

My Princeton Tec byte has a red light, only good to about one metre. Two white light settings and a lock. It only takes two AAA.

Currently using a Fenix HL50. No red or lock but much brighter. Three white light settings and high burst. Uses a CR123 or I prefer using the included extension tube and run on one AA.

Both headtorches start to dim as the battery wears out. The Ptec will loose high beam, then the red light before it dies completely.

So I notice this and can choose to replace the battery prior to flat if wanted.

(also have a Petzl e-light that stays in my mini first aid & repair kit. Handy if the main torch is accidentally forgotten!)
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 5:06 pm

north-north-west wrote:Given that my headlamp is usually tucked away in the middle of the pack, I've taken to carrying a 1xAAA led light in either the camera bag or a pocket. Small, light, easy to reach and adequate for pitching the tent if a site isn't found until it's dark. Reorganising the packing would eliminate the necessity, but I've never been into gram counting.

I also have a single AA torch, Eveready Dolphin mini, just weighed it. 60 grams including the long lanyard.Replaceable Lithium batteries make more sense to me for winter and this is part of my winter kit.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Al M » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 7:50 pm

stry wrote:Al, I understand and acknowledge what you are saying about established treks, and the OLT, and no planned night walking.

I don't know why you have chosen to expand the spare headlamp issue into duplication of other gear, but you are determinedly ignoring my points - OFF TRACK - BATTERY EXHAUSTED BY USE.

Here endeth the epistle.


If there is nothing to add or disagree to someone’s post, there’s no need to respond, which is also not a sign of determinedly ignoring it, similar to those who have posted and have not received responses to their comments yet have not taken the view of being ignored. That’s normal in forums.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby bbjay » Sun 16 Aug, 2020 10:40 pm

Another one for the NU25 nitecore what a light ,I use it all the time at home on the second light setting collecting wood ,feeding animals
lasts a long time before recharge , Owned for about 3 mths Very pleased
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Drew » Fri 11 Jun, 2021 5:44 pm

Jumping onto this thread as my headtorch just broke and I'm contemplating replacement options. Everyone seems to love the Nitecore NU25, and I can see the appeal, as well as the NU17 and NU20. However, I try to make purchases more environmentally friendly/sustainable where possible, and I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with torches that have non-replaceable batteries. So far I've always used AAA torches, with rechargeables. The only limiting factor to the torch lifespan is the torch itself (which, in the case of the piece of crap PrincetonTec torch that just died, is not all that long - and it was a warranty replacement too).

I understand that the built-in batteries have a pretty good lifespan, but the idea that the whole torch is useless just because the battery has died seems symptomatic of so much that's wrong with our society.

It seems like the range of torches using AAAs isn't as good as those with built-ins. I haven't done an extensive search, but looks like there are some okay Black Diamond options (like the Asrto 250 or Spot 160), but maybe nothing as great as the Nitecores. There's a slight weight penalty too for the more powerful ones that need 3 x AAA.

Anyway, just curious to hear people's thoughts on this topic. And if you know of any great options that take rechargeables please let me know!
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Re: Headtorches

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 11 Jun, 2021 6:54 pm

Nu25 is rechargeable but agree if you can't replace the internal battery it's not great especially as the battery gets old it won't hold as much charge.

I'd be curious what the light output falloff is as the batteries lose power. Or is it relatively consistent until they are almost gone?

I initially thought the burn time was low but it's not to bad. I find it strange that 190 lumens gets you 5 hours but dropping down to 38 lumens only gives 3 hours more.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby matagi » Fri 11 Jun, 2021 7:00 pm

Petzl Actik takes rechargeable batteries and if you get the Petzl Actik Core it comes with the removable rechargeable battery pack included. It has 3 illumination levels on white plus red and red flashing. I don't use the rechargeable batteries for mine because I haven't got around to buying the battery pack but it is pretty gentle on battery use although I tend to use mine on the lowest brightness setting most of the time.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Lamont » Fri 11 Jun, 2021 7:27 pm

Drew wrote:Jumping onto this thread as my headtorch just broke and I'm contemplating replacement options. Everyone seems to love the Nitecore NU25, and I can see the appeal, as well as the NU17 and NU20. However, I try to make purchases more environmentally friendly/sustainable where possible, and I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with torches that have non-replaceable batteries. So far I've always used AAA torches, with rechargeables. The only limiting factor to the torch lifespan is the torch itself (which, in the case of the piece of crap PrincetonTec torch that just died, is not all that long - and it was a warranty replacement too).

I understand that the built-in batteries have a pretty good lifespan, but the idea that the whole torch is useless just because the battery has died seems symptomatic of so much that's wrong with our society.

It seems like the range of torches using AAAs isn't as good as those with built-ins. I haven't done an extensive search, but looks like there are some okay Black Diamond options (like the Asrto 250 or Spot 160), but maybe nothing as great as the Nitecores. There's a slight weight penalty too for the more powerful ones that need 3 x AAA.

Anyway, just curious to hear people's thoughts on this topic. And if you know of any great options that take rechargeables please let me know!

Budget?
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Neo » Fri 11 Jun, 2021 9:05 pm

Also, how far do you want to see most of the time?
Just around camp, or long spotlight/ night walking too...
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Drew » Sat 12 Jun, 2021 9:50 am

matagi wrote:Petzl Actik takes rechargeable batteries and if you get the Petzl Actik Core it comes with the removable rechargeable battery pack included. It has 3 illumination levels on white plus red and red flashing. I don't use the rechargeable batteries for mine because I haven't got around to buying the battery pack but it is pretty gentle on battery use although I tend to use mine on the lowest brightness setting most of the time.


Thanks matagi, I'll have a look at it.

Budget?
Given there seem to be decent options for around $50-60 (like the NU25 and those Black Diamonds I mentioned) I wouldn't really want to spend much more than that unless I was going to get something way better.

Neo wrote:Also, how far do you want to see most of the time?
Just around camp, or long spotlight/ night walking too...


Mostly just for around camp, but nice to have a bright option to be able to look for owls in the trees etc.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Lamont » Sat 12 Jun, 2021 11:15 am

wildwanderer wrote: I initially thought the burn time was low but it's not to bad. I find it strange that 190 lumens gets you 5 hours but dropping down to 38 lumens only gives 3 hours more.

They set the hardware/circuitry in the NU25/20 HT I believe, for runners-it's sold (at least it was at first) as a runners HT, so the circuitry is set and skewed towards runners.
38 is dangerous for bush running or bushwalking in challenging terrain.
190 is pretty good.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 29 Jun, 2021 10:18 pm

Almost a year since the first query.
Was the OP able to make a decision?
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Drew » Wed 30 Jun, 2021 8:58 am

Moondog55 wrote:Almost a year since the first query.
Was the OP able to make a decision?


Not sure about the OP, but I ended up ordering a Black Diamond Spot Lite 200. I reckon a light using replaceable, rechargeable batteries is a more environmentally friendly option than one with a built-in battery, which becomes useless when the battery dies. This one only uses 2 AAAs, so is a bit lighter than most of the AAA headtorches. However it seems to be lost in the post, so I can't tell you yet if it's any good!
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Lamont » Wed 30 Jun, 2021 9:49 am

I bought this about a month ago and have enough hours on it, in some very wet and windy dodgy terrain-of about 60-70 hours and it's worth a look.
Fenix HM50R
https://fenixlight.com.au/product/fenix ... -headlamp/ no affiliation -ordered 2pm and arrived next morning!
No postage cost so about $30 more than the NU25.

It maintains a higher useable light level for longer for trail running/dodgy walking than say the NU20/25, is battery replaceable, included battery is rechargeable in the torch -and the Fenix will also take a CR123 battery if headed say to somewhere really cold and you want longer power, and waterproof, and comes with 2 silicon cradles (one of which I have 3mm bungy in-60gms) weighs 80 gms with included headband. Is a light and tough metal.
No gimmicky stuff (for someone not hunting/needing red light) -just 4 light levels. Simplest of operation.
Happy to buy a couple of CR123s when needed. Or get a spare Fenix battery.
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Re: Headtorches

Postby Lamont » Wed 30 Jun, 2021 2:11 pm

.
.
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