Packing list for OLT

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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby woyapp1 » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 5:58 pm

I've made some changes based on the advice I've received already, so my list may not accurately reflect some of the comments.

Moondog55 wrote:While the Dumper is an OK down jumper the real value at OP at the moment is their Inversion down parka, I would have bought one, unfortunately they are too damned small.
https://www.oneplanet.com.au/product/cl ... inversion/
At 610 grams for a medium it qualifies as UL when the warmth factor is counted, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of insuarance in your static layer


Looks amazing, but potentially overkill for me I think at that weight.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby matagi » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 7:24 pm

north-north-west wrote:What on earth is going on with the multiple copies of posts?

Sorry, it kept timing out while I was trying to post and I eventually gave up thinking the post hadn't loaded.
This makes me the first man to climb Mount Everest backwards, without oxygen...or even a jumper.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby matagi » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 7:34 pm

woyapp1 wrote:Thanks for that. Helpful suggestions. I don't care too much about the soap tbh, especially as I don't sweat much at all. But my tent-mate may not want to be my friend at the end of the hike without it!

Sounds like I can definitely reduce the food. I'll look into that more.


What I do to keep "fresh" on the OLT - carry a collapsible plastic bowl (S2S XL Bowl) which is my bathing bowl, a microfibre face cloth and tea tree oil. Each afternoon when I get into camp, after setting up, I heat a small quantity of water put it in the bowl with a couple of drops of tea tree oil and then have sponge bath working from top to bottom. It is surprisingly effective.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 7:41 pm

woyapp1 wrote:I've made some changes based on the advice I've received already, so my list may not accurately reflect some of the comments.

Moondog55 wrote:While the Dumper is an OK down jumper the real value at OP at the moment is their Inversion down parka, I would have bought one, unfortunately they are too damned small.
https://www.oneplanet.com.au/product/cl ... inversion/
At 610 grams for a medium it qualifies as UL when the warmth factor is counted, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of insuarance in your static layer


Looks amazing, but potentially overkill for me I think at that weight.

Ah But think forward to the use wheb snow camping in the high country, definitely useful there ad no need to buy twice and No i don't get a finders fee from OP I I wish I did
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Eremophila » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 10:24 pm

I’ve recently bought the Macpac Uber light down jacket and it’s not that warm, I’d recommend the next level of warmth/weight.
For backup warmth in your sleeping bag, you could take a few of those single use hand / foot / body warmers which are available in Chemist Warehouse, Bunnings, supermarkets. I haven’t used them but fellow walkers have and they last all night, sometimes longer.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Watertank » Fri 24 Jul, 2020 7:45 am

You don’t need the chair, there are plenty of logs, rocks and platforms at the camping places to sit on, if you would like some comfort these are great https://www.snowys.com.au/extra-warm-z-seat - they are light, pretty indestructible and useful for kneeling on getting in and out of your tent. To me your food looks too little, but it depends on your needs, I would do a test run measuring it out at home well in advance. I suggest you take, at least as back up, a couple of dehydrated hiking meals and perhaps a couple of cliff bars. The main danger in packing is adding extras at the last minute... is the power cell your extra storage battery? It seems very light, will it be sufficient for your needs? I also agree with ditching the thermos.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Al M » Fri 24 Jul, 2020 10:51 pm

In addition to what has been already suggested consider further load reduction with no -

Balance pockets
Lighter Matt option, 3/4 length and place spare cloths under feet instead
Water proof dish gloves
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby north-north-west » Sat 25 Jul, 2020 9:08 am

Al M wrote:In addition to what has been already suggested consider further load reduction with no -
Balance pockets


The Balance Pockets are what make the pack system work.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Al M » Sat 25 Jul, 2020 9:47 pm

north-north-west wrote:
Al M wrote:In addition to what has been already suggested consider further load reduction with no -
Balance pockets


The Balance Pockets are what make the pack system work.


The 55L backpack is big enough already and your just adding more weight bringing it up to 2kg pack, which is getting heavier. A 1-1.2kg backpack is nice to aim for to achieve 9kg baseweight category and you are close to that so along with the others suggestions 400g saving is quite significant. If do all that the total pack loaded might get from 17kg down to under 15kg and this will help a lot on the waste, shoulder straps and general physical effort and end of day feel.

The pockets will make things easier to store and access but the main pack has top compartment for that, but in the end not that necessary. Are you comfortable walking with pockets strapped to the front vs more sense of freedom not having them there. A drink bottle holder may be needed if the side backpack pockets will not fit them as you need to access water to drink easily and frequently.

Also, for meals like breakfast and lunch in the first 2 days plastic bag zip locked pre-made bread rolls or sandwich with preserved meats and filling that will last can make it more convenient, do less with packet tuna, less rubbish to carry out and adds some variety over the trip. Zip lock bags are reusable for other purposes.

The Clean x 2 Platypus DuoLock Drink collapsible containers may be substituted with simple reused sturdy beverage or mineral water plastic bottles that stand up on flat surface.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby north-north-west » Sun 26 Jul, 2020 9:50 am

Learn a bit about the system before telling someone to change it. The difference of walking with the pockets to balance out the main pack more than compensates for the slight extra weight. It's easier and far less stressful on the body than carrying a lighter weight in a standard pack.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 26 Jul, 2020 10:06 am

north-north-west wrote:Learn a bit about the system before telling someone to change it. The difference of walking with the pockets to balance out the main pack more than compensates for the slight extra weight. It's easier and far less stressful on the body than carrying a lighter weight in a standard pack.


Do some deep research, Australian bushwalkers were using "Shebas" as balance/weight transfer packs in the late 1920s/ early 1930s. In fact the British P37 webbing system was partly based on these large front mounted load carriers
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Al M » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 12:22 am

north-north-west wrote:Learn a bit about the system before telling someone to change it. The difference of walking with the pockets to balance out the main pack more than compensates for the slight extra weight. It's easier and far less stressful on the body than carrying a lighter weight in a standard pack.


Perhaps a great optional extra, but not a lot of hikers are using that system. One still needs to try it and see if it suits the style of walking and terrain. Compared to say a common 1.2kg pack like an Osprey Exos the 0.8kg weight difference is not insignificant and can go towards reducing the base weight significantly among other items.

I used the Aust Army webbing system in the 1981 reserve army similar to the British P37 and the only thing going for it was to be indestructible and for combat. It was mostly designed to put stuff in the front for quick access and gun reload but not for comfort and distributing load onto the hips, it was all on the shoulders. Very little of that era army gear was ergonomic or light weight.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby ChrisJHC » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 6:49 am

The Aarn system appears to be a lot more popular in the US.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby woyapp1 » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 7:41 am

Al M wrote:
north-north-west wrote:Learn a bit about the system before telling someone to change it. The difference of walking with the pockets to balance out the main pack more than compensates for the slight extra weight. It's easier and far less stressful on the body than carrying a lighter weight in a standard pack.


Perhaps a great optional extra, but not a lot of hikers are using that system. One still needs to try it and see if it suits the style of walking and terrain. Compared to say a common 1.2kg pack like an Osprey Exos the 0.8kg weight difference is not insignificant and can go towards reducing the base weight significantly among other items.

I used the Aust Army webbing system in the 1981 reserve army similar to the British P37 and the only thing going for it was to be indestructible and for combat. It was mostly designed to put stuff in the front for quick access and gun reload but not for comfort and distributing load onto the hips, it was all on the shoulders. Very little of that era army gear was ergonomic or light weight.


Thanks for the perspective! I'm open to all options to reduce my pack weight, but I think I'd only lose the balance pockets as a last resort.

Al M wrote:In addition to what has been already suggested consider further load reduction with no -

Balance pockets
Lighter Matt option, 3/4 length and place spare cloths under feet instead
Water proof dish gloves


A lighter mat is definitely on my list as a way to reduce weight. Not sure that I'm keen to go 3/4, but I can definitely lose 230g going from the larger mat to the standard women's one, so that's looking likely.
I'm not sure if it's obvious, but the dish gloves aren't for washing dishes, I saw them mentioned as a suggestion for waterproof gloves that were neither expensive nor heavy. They'll just be a backup as I wasn't going to get anything special in the waterproof-glove-department.

Thanks!
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby woyapp1 » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 7:57 am

Watertank wrote:You don’t need the chair, there are plenty of logs, rocks and platforms at the camping places to sit on, if you would like some comfort these are great https://www.snowys.com.au/extra-warm-z-seat - they are light, pretty indestructible and useful for kneeling on getting in and out of your tent. To me your food looks too little, but it depends on your needs, I would do a test run measuring it out at home well in advance. I suggest you take, at least as back up, a couple of dehydrated hiking meals and perhaps a couple of cliff bars. The main danger in packing is adding extras at the last minute... is the power cell your extra storage battery? It seems very light, will it be sufficient for your needs? I also agree with ditching the thermos.


Thanks for your suggestions. I'm uncertain about the power cell, it is very light and would only be used as a last resort. i.e. I'm either relying on huts being open (which they are now, but who knows what will happen by December!) or I hopefully won't need it. My friend is bringing a camera and I don't intend to keep my phone on. My kindle won't need charging in that time. Either way, I had planned to wait till it was a bit closer to the trip & decide then if I need to get a more powerful one.

The z-seat looks good.

Re food, I cut it a bit based on advice from others, definitely planning on testing thoroughly before the trip (multiple overnight training hikes including testing different foods). I'm a very active person in my normal life, so I expect my food requirements won't be vastly different to normal though.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby matagi » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:07 am

Al M wrote:
north-north-west wrote:Learn a bit about the system before telling someone to change it. The difference of walking with the pockets to balance out the main pack more than compensates for the slight extra weight. It's easier and far less stressful on the body than carrying a lighter weight in a standard pack.


Perhaps a great optional extra, but not a lot of hikers are using that system. One still needs to try it and see if it suits the style of walking and terrain. Compared to say a common 1.2kg pack like an Osprey Exos the 0.8kg weight difference is not insignificant and can go towards reducing the base weight significantly among other items.

I used the Aust Army webbing system in the 1981 reserve army similar to the British P37 and the only thing going for it was to be indestructible and for combat. It was mostly designed to put stuff in the front for quick access and gun reload but not for comfort and distributing load onto the hips, it was all on the shoulders. Very little of that era army gear was ergonomic or light weight.

The Aarn system is nothing like the Aust Army webbing system. It is designed so you take the bulk of the weight on your hips with minimal weight on your shoulders. In fact, if you have any substantial weight on your shoulders with an Aarn pack, you need to adjust the fit. Ditching the balance pockets just turns it into a conventional pack, which kind of negates the point of having an Aarn.

A lot more people are cottoning on to the benefits of the Aarn system. I certainly saw a number of them (as in 5 or 6) on our last OLT trip. We got into quite detailed conversation with several people who were interested in our packs and how they work. They are not perfect by any means, but if you have any sort of back issues, an Aarn pack will work better for you than a conventional pack.
This makes me the first man to climb Mount Everest backwards, without oxygen...or even a jumper.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby JohnnoMcJohnno » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:43 pm

Not sure why this thread is heading down the Aarn or no Aarn pack debate. The OP has got the Aarn pack, seems pointless debating the merits or otherwise. Woyapp - I presume you have loaded it up with stuff, walked around the house/streets/local tracks and set it up so it works best for you.

Re the OLT, the fact that the huts may not be open certainly makes the planning more interesting. That list is pretty close to what I would take although like others I wouldn't take the chair. I see you have reduced the food. I'm on the large size and took 5 kg of food when I went - and ended up with almost a kilo left over. I know its good to have something spare though in case of delays like a couple of packs of instant noodles or a block of chocolate for emergencies. A couple of minor points - I used up all my 50g of hand sanitiser really quickly - I received so many hygiene warnings I kind of overused it. Wish I'd brought the next size up. Also no camera? Presume that is a personal choice but I always like to get a photo for my mother. Enjoy your trip.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Petew » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 2:49 pm

Have you tried the Kindle app on your phone?

You could leave the Kindle and take a 10000mah power bank instead.

You can buy a cheaper version of the z seat, Ultralight hiker sell them.

If you haven't bought your sleep pad yet I can reccomend the Exped synmat hyperlight winter mat. I used one on the OT last winter. Very comfortable and 430g.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby matagi » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 3:45 pm

JohnnoMcJohnno wrote:Re the OLT, the fact that the huts may not be open certainly makes the planning more interesting. That list is pretty close to what I would take although like others I wouldn't take the chair. I see you have reduced the food. I'm on the large size and took 5 kg of food when I went - and ended up with almost a kilo left over. I know its good to have something spare though in case of delays like a couple of packs of instant noodles or a block of chocolate for emergencies. A couple of minor points - I used up all my 50g of hand sanitiser really quickly - I received so many hygiene warnings I kind of overused it. Wish I'd brought the next size up. Also no camera? Presume that is a personal choice but I always like to get a photo for my mother. Enjoy your trip.

The OLT huts are now open but numbers are limited. Personally, I would operate on the premise that huts will be unavailable and plan accordingly.

RE: hand sanitiser - I found 2 x 50ml bottles worked well. 1 bottle in the bag with toilet paper used exclusively after going to the toilet (I washed my hands first after using the long drops then followed up with sanitiser). The other bottle is for sanitising before cooking and after touching communal things like hut door handles. You don't need a huge amount. Both my bottles were over half full when I finished the OLT.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 8:59 pm

Hi Matagi,

I did the Overland Track with a 25 December Christmas Day departure, and my LighterPack list that I took is here: https://www.lighterpack.com/r/bz0cqf

After I finished the hike, I did a review and noted:
#1 - The fingerless sun gloves I took were INVALUABLE and everyone was envying sun gloves. The reason being that the sun was beating down and those who had sunscreen on their hands found that the trekking pole strap fasteners which went over there hand were abrading the sunscreen off. Everyone had blistered sunburnt hands. I can't recommend the sun gloves highly enough.
#2 - The Leukotape I took was also INVALUABLE and I would take twice as much. It was so helpful for dealing with any blister or strapping up foot. I am a convert and prefer it over sticking plasters and anything else. One can wrap a large length all the way around the foot in a circle even several times so it doesn't come off and stays put.
#3 - The Aegismax Down Hat which was bought on Aliexpress and weighs 70 grams added so much warmth at night if it turned super-cold, and I'd recommend that option to anyone going into potentially really cold weather. During my hike there was only one really cold night when it got down to -2 and it was great on that night.

Now going through your list, my thoughts are:
- The Aarn system is quite heavy at basically 2kg, and you could shed close to 1 kg by going for a different pack (Like a Hyperlite Mountain Gear pack, or a ULA Circuit (68L), or Sierra Designs Flex Capacitor, or Osprey Eja, etc) However if you love the Aarn system or don't want to spend more money then fair enough.
- I high recommend a wide mat and I totally think it's worth the extra weight so that your arms don't fall off the side of the mat and I get a much better night's sleep for the wide size mat. I'd suggest that you try it out before you go or ideally before you buy to check you do like style and feel of it, but looks good option to me and R value of 3.7 is pretty good. (Options that will provide higher insulation are things like Thermarest XTherm but I believe these are more expensive in Australia then the Sea to Summit Comfort Light.)

Clothing
- You could save 250 grams by ditching Crocs and instead taking some hotel slippers bought on Aliexpress, which did the job fine in my case.
- Camp & sleeping clothes - I highly advise an 800 fill Drydown puffie jacket with a hood, which should weigh around 260 grams; a polar fleece with hood which should weigh around 240 grams, and a set of the thicker 220 merino pants and top which should weigh around 350 grams combined.
- Extra base layer - I recommend base layer thickness merino short sleeve top and leggings which should weigh around 220 grams combined. (And you can alter these out for camp clothes / sleeping clothes if weather is too hot on any night for the thicker weight merino.)
That set-up gave me flexibility to adapt to cold weather at camp, or indeed hot weather some nights when I just slept in base layer merino. And the polar fleece was precious because I could hike out in that on cold morning and take it off and stuff it in pack when it warmed up.

Camp chair
- I would ditch and just take a Thermarest Z-Seat as a sit pad (or sit pad made of 3 segments of Zlite Sol). https://www.snowys.com.au/extra-warm-z-seat
Now I would add by way of context I have a Helinox Zero which I seriously considered taking and have taken on hikes before. I ended up not taking it and I didn't need it at all. The reason a chair wasn't needed and wouldn't have been appreciated by me was that the huts all had benches to sit on, and there were sit spots on route or logs to chuck my Zlite Sol sections. There wasn't a single time I wished I had taken my chair.
And that section of Thermarest Z-Seat was great to take out to put pack on to protect pack from mud, or use for organisation outside tent, and a variety of purposes.
Everyone who knew what they were doing in generality had one of the Zseats or had made one from sections of Zlite or had bought another generic brand from Aliexpress that is essentially same thing.

But overall pack set up looks great and I wish you all the best trip in the world.

Best,

Emma
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 9:01 pm

PS Foodwise I had similar amount to you, and I had a bit left over, and it was about right.

I've worked out I need 650 grams a day, but I'd calculated 700-750 grams a day and packed an extra half day's food as an emergency just-in-case. I finished the hike with some left over but I don't really regret what I took as if I had of got stuck anywhere or had to extend trip for an injury or anything else, that extra food was a good idea.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 27 Jul, 2020 9:12 pm

How many kilojoules in that 750 grams?
If you need 8,000kj per day and the food you carry dosen't supply enough you will lose weight, most of us are a carrying a little extra weight so it makes sense to utilise body fat to make up the difference
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby emma_melbourne » Tue 28 Jul, 2020 6:53 pm

I didn't do a kilojules calculation @Moondog55 but I took very calculated food - in terms of sachet tuna with olive oil to mix into couscous, salmon with dill to mix in with angel hair pasta with additional mini lemon infused olive oil to mix in, foil sachet olives, dehydrated Backcountry Cuisine / Campers pantry meals, mini Snickers bars, trail mix, morning 2 x porridge sachets per day with added ingredients to make more exciting, Carmans crackers with salami and parmesan cheese, etc. (Carman's Crackers are 2400 kj/ per 100 grams ) and cheese crisps which are a great tip if you're doing hikes more than 3 days ish in length and your fresh parmesan might go a bit yuck and need using by then.

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ese-crisps

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ked-pepper

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... poppy-seed

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ked-pepper

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... -oil-blend

I ate well on the trail. I had no appetite beyond the 650 grams roughly a day that I ate. And I may well have lost a little weight but fine given I could afford to! (In fact what a great weight loss plan - wink)
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby commando » Thu 30 Jul, 2020 10:57 pm

emma you have a high level of detail and understanding in your food, mine was a lot simpler thanks for some ideas.
Breakfast : Weetbix dried apricots and milk powder...which i didn't eat
Lunch : Salami and rice crackers and a bar cherry ripe
Dinner 2 minute noodles or rice with sultanas chopped onion and dehydrated meat.. a mate did it for me and it was good.
Orange Tang for the water
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby slparker » Fri 31 Jul, 2020 8:37 am

The army webbing system since the 60s puts weight on your hips if you do up the belt on your iliac crest - after all the pouches clip directly to the belt. Well, this worked for the 20 years I used the system anyway. The exception being if you are carrying a pack as well - then pack carrying hell awaits you.

I don't use AARN backpacking packs but they seem like an excellent idea. But, I use largeish hip pockets on my non-AARN pack as well as carrying a couple of kilos via z-packs water bottle holders on shoulder straps. It does makes some difference to offset the weight, especially if you use some UL gear in the backpack. You don't need the AARN system to carry a couple of kilos on your shoulder straps and hipbelt and it also doesn't hurt your shoulders to do so, at least not for me.

But, the AARN is clearly a better system for carrying more weight forward but it is offset by a larger weight burden overall. how disproportionate that burden is relates, relates I suspect, to how heavy your overall gear is and how long you're walking for.

I can't imagine why you would have an AARN pack and not use the balance pockets - it is the worst of both worlds, a heavier pack with the poorer weight distribution of a traditional pack.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby woyapp1 » Fri 31 Jul, 2020 8:42 pm

Petew wrote:Have you tried the Kindle app on your phone?

You could leave the Kindle and take a 10000mah power bank instead.

You can buy a cheaper version of the z seat, Ultralight hiker sell them.

If you haven't bought your sleep pad yet I can reccomend the Exped synmat hyperlight winter mat. I used one on the OT last winter. Very comfortable and 430g.


Yes, my phone is not ideal for reading, I'm pretty keen to take the kindle.

Thanks for the may suggestion, I'll take a look.

emma_melbourne wrote:I didn't do a kilojules calculation @Moondog55 but I took very calculated food - in terms of sachet tuna with olive oil to mix into couscous, salmon with dill to mix in with angel hair pasta with additional mini lemon infused olive oil to mix in, foil sachet olives, dehydrated Backcountry Cuisine / Campers pantry meals, mini Snickers bars, trail mix, morning 2 x porridge sachets per day with added ingredients to make more exciting, Carmans crackers with salami and parmesan cheese, etc. (Carman's Crackers are 2400 kj/ per 100 grams ) and cheese crisps which are a great tip if you're doing hikes more than 3 days ish in length and your fresh parmesan might go a bit yuck and need using by then.

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ese-crisps

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ked-pepper

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... poppy-seed

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ked-pepper

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... -oil-blend

I ate well on the trail. I had no appetite beyond the 650 grams roughly a day that I ate. And I may well have lost a little weight but fine given I could afford to! (In fact what a great weight loss plan - wink)


Thanks! This and your other posts are really helpful. The food you had sounds very similar to what I'm planning to take.

Re the chair, I've decided I'm not going to take it. Even thought huts may not be open, I think I'll be ok without the chair. Plus my hiking companion won't have one, so I might feel a bit out of place with it!
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Petew » Sat 01 Aug, 2020 10:55 am

The little foam bum pads are pretty handy on the OT. Cushion your butt, insulate it and keeps it dry too.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby Lamont » Sat 01 Aug, 2020 12:07 pm

Petew wrote:The little foam bum pads are pretty handy on the OT. Cushion your butt, insulate it and keeps it dry too.

Yes, I concur!
All I carry at the minute-but rather a bit of cut off 10mm CCF (smaller and easier for me to pack) -makes a top wee seat.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby north-north-west » Sat 01 Aug, 2020 12:17 pm

Lamont wrote:
Petew wrote:The little foam bum pads are pretty handy on the OT. Cushion your butt, insulate it and keeps it dry too.

Yes, I concur!
All I carry at the minute-but rather a bit of cut off 10mm CCF (smaller and easier for me to pack) -makes a top wee seat.


Somehow I had assumed you were one of the stand-up-to-wee brigade. Apologies.
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Re: Packing list for OLT

Postby emma_melbourne » Sat 01 Aug, 2020 1:01 pm

I was going to write and emphasise the exact same thing - YOU NEED A BUTT PAD.

I wouldn't hike the Overland Track without a butt pad.

In case you're wondering "What the F^#K?" A butt pad or sit pad is a section of CCF foam, as others have mentioned. And every serious hiker has one because they know how valuable they are.

When it's wet, or snowy - definitely need a butt pad to sit on.

On rough logs - need a butt pad to sit on.

But there are many other helpful uses for a butt pad - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR1zP2WkCOU

You'd have to wrestle me to the death to take my butt pad off me on a hike.

You can buy a super cheap style on on Aliexpress here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006886529.html (Weighs 40 grams)

Or cheap on ebay here: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Foldable-Fo ... 3582102160

Or you can buy the fancy Theramrest Zseat here with the silver reflective side:
(Snowys link) https://www.snowys.com.au/extra-warm-z-seat
or (WildEarth link): https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/therma ... S221-09947

Or you can cut off a few sections of a CCF sleep pad if you have one already that's too long. (Like a Thermarest ZLite or similar)



Best,

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