Weight loss needed

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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby commando » Tue 10 Nov, 2020 9:05 pm

The only difference between a person who is overweight or underweight is described as their
Basal Metabolic Rate, that is calories burned at rest.

Increasing metabolic rate decreases weight
Decreasing metabolic rate increases weight.

So what decreases Metabolic rate?
Fasting
Saunas
Tropical weather

So what increases Metabolic rate
Exercise
Winter climates
Sleeping cold

Perhaps this may give a different perspective other than calorific values only.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby ribuck » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 5:11 am

Commando, you seem to be claiming that the ONLY thing which makes people overweight or underweight is the difference in their basal metabolic rate.

If that were the case, I would expect the Finns (with their daily saunas) to be massively overweight. Also, the people I know who undertake regular fasting are all of healthy weight, yet I think you are saying they would tend towards overweight.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 5:50 am

It's got very little to do with the basal rate IME
Much more to do with the Kilojoule IN Vs kilojoule OUT equation.
Fasting may decrease my basal rate but that is countered by exercising a little more.
With my own basal rate being ~8000kj/24hr; in the 4 hours wearing the monitor yesterday I burned another 7000, I think I can add another couple of thousand for just general pottering around.
That's about 400 grams of body fat used which correlates reasonably well with my current rate of weight loss of a kilo a day.
I think over the last couple of weeks my body has finally licked into ketosis.
This is pleasing.
I will not try had to stack on 5-10 kilos before next ski season just in case I break a leg and can't ski again
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby stry » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 7:14 am

Far too much theorising takes place with this topic.

With few exceptions, excess weight is simply, as MD stated kilojoules in versus kilojoules out. Some are more prone to retaining excess "in" than others, but unless there is something askew medically or physiologically, the relationship is simple.

I am inclined to wonder if maybe we wallow around in all this stuff because it is easier than reducing the "in" to correspond more closely with the "out". :D
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 8:17 am

I've always tried to increase the OUT so I could eat what I wanted
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Mark F » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 1:13 pm

Moondog55 wrote:I've always tried to increase the OUT so I could eat what I wanted


The problem is optimism - imagining the huge number of calories being shed when exercising that actually are not shed and imagining that the little piece of brie is so small that it couldn't contain any calories at all.

Another way to fool oneself is to measure kilojoules on the expenditure side and calories for the intake.

PS - I am an optimist.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Neo » Wed 11 Nov, 2020 10:12 pm

No carb might work. You get to eat meats fats and dairy, generally all above ground growing veg are ok too.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby stry » Thu 12 Nov, 2020 6:36 pm

Mark F wrote:
Moondog55 wrote:I've always tried to increase the OUT so I could eat what I wanted


The problem is optimism - imagining the huge number of calories being shed when exercising that actually are not shed and imagining that the little piece of brie is so small that it couldn't contain any calories at all.

Another way to fool oneself is to measure kilojoules on the expenditure side and calories for the intake.

PS - I am an optimist.


That resonates with me, although I don't have weight issues. In my case "I just climbed that big hill/mountain" or whatever, justifies me shovelling whatever appeals to me into my mouth for a day or so. :lol: It appears some frailties are widespread. :lol:
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 13 Nov, 2020 6:21 am

I spent my working life as a chef and cook cooking and presenting food that encouraged people to eat more than they needed because it tasted so good.
All good cooks are "Bliss point engineers"
So I guess that I am also an optimist.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby andrewa » Fri 13 Nov, 2020 6:10 pm

Realising that this comment might offend some, but my wise old elderly practice partner ( now deceased), used to say to overweight patients -

“There were no fat prisoners of war”..

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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Lamont » Fri 13 Nov, 2020 6:27 pm

Evoking the images of starved people to make a 'point'. Smooth.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 13 Nov, 2020 9:13 pm

Nah The fat ones got eaten first.
Truth is most of us carry a lot of extra weight, even the skinny ones.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby wayno » Sat 14 Nov, 2020 3:43 am

there are studies that point to the type of gut bacteria you have, increasing the likelihood of being overweight. and taking the healthy types of bacteria can help and not feeding the bad bacteria.
the bad bacteria live of carbs and sugar the good ones live off soluble fibre..
being on your feet, even when you're not exercising keeps fat burning active in your body.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 14 Nov, 2020 5:54 am

Pizza input exactly balanced by exercise output, If I ate the whole thing it might be different
I adjunct my current diet with soluble fibre, it takes away the "Hungry Feelings"
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby wayno » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 11:34 am

theres a 20 minute lag with your brain on apetite satiation.... you're stomach is technically full 20 minutes beore your brain get the full signals...
you can pack in a lot of calories in that extra 20 minutes.... eat slow... cut the portion size and wait 20 minutes before deciding you can eat more...
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 12:05 pm

Yep.
On the days where I don't eat at all I am losing about a kilo a day and putting on about 900 when I eat, I am having some trouble at the moment with fluid retention as my body adjusts to the new regime. When my GP had me on diuretics as part of the BP medications I was losing 2 or 3 kilos in a day despite drinking 5 or 6 litres of water in that time frame.
I'll get back to my real weight soon, and if that soon is six to nine months that's OK
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby wayno » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 12:10 pm

try juicing vegetables for a more balanced fluid intake with minerals
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 12:50 pm

wayno wrote:try juicing vegetables for a more balanced fluid intake with minerals

Might be too many killerjoules on my fasting days, but not on water pills at the moment, stopped them a week ago when my BP started to respond to new medications.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Ms_Mudd » Sat 27 Feb, 2021 6:50 pm

How did you get on with your fasting and new meds Moondog?
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 28 Feb, 2021 4:22 am

Backwards I'm afraid.
Eating too much due to boredom factors, partly due to lockdown and partly because I'm a good cook and I simply eat too much with not enough exercise
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby wayno » Sun 28 Feb, 2021 4:29 am

i had a hair mineral analysis, and i was told that i'm struggling to maintain energy because i'm low in micronutrients. that are essential for maintaining metabolism
manganese, chromium, copper. magnesium. zinc. i was told its common for people who do endurance exercise..
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby stry » Sun 28 Feb, 2021 2:01 pm

MD, it's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread, but the Mosely publicized intermittent fasting does work. Best if it is two consecutive days of each seven.

I don't have weight issues, but tried the fasting to see if it might help with a couple of other issues.

Despite the fact that I really like food, and really like to eat lots of it, I had no real difficulty with the severely reduced calorific intake for the two fasting days. I expected to struggle and my resolve to weaken, but it wasn't very hard to stick to it. A common concern is that one simply eats more following the fast to catch up, but it has been shown that any catchup in intake falls well short of what was foregone whilst fasting.

Uncomplicated. Easy. Effective.

Give it a try. You might be surprised at how well you can manage it.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 28 Feb, 2021 3:40 pm

I have tried it Stry and it works.
Partly it's the whole Covid thing combined with other things in the world at large. I'm more than a little down just now.
I think things would be a lot better if I could find a job
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby stry » Sun 28 Feb, 2021 6:21 pm

I get it. :) Stuff just piles up.

In my case, the good news is that once I can get one of the dominoes, any one, to fall, the rest become a lot more manageable.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 16 Jul, 2021 1:45 pm

Well the ski camping is really good for my weight control. Despite what seemed to me a lot of high calorie food being eaten I lost 5 kilos over the time I was away, 3 days travelling and 5 nites sleeping above 1500m and getting in at least 12 klicks on skis or mountain boots each day. A shame I fell and broke a back rib that is still healing but my blood pressure is already down a good bit and mentally I really needed to take time in the snow
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Tortoise » Fri 16 Jul, 2021 5:19 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Well the ski camping is really good for my weight control. Despite what seemed to me a lot of high calorie food being eaten I lost 5 kilos over the time I was away, 3 days travelling and 5 nites sleeping above 1500m and getting in at least 12 klicks on skis or mountain boots each day. A shame I fell and broke a back rib that is still healing but my blood pressure is already down a good bit and mentally I really needed to take time in the snow

Well done, Ted. Glad you got there. Sounds like it did wonders, in spite of the broken rib.

Just harking back to the intermittent fasting thing - I've tried 5:2 days, and 6:1, which I managed fairly well for a little while. I love that there are 'no decisions to be made now', it's cheap(!), there's no food prep and little washing up. But it was hard some days, for a variety of reasons (work, visiting, low energy etc). I'm now giving the 'reduced eating window' a go. Again, it's a positive start. i think it might work better for me because of my eating pattern. I tend to eat healthy until about 5pm, and graze for the rest of the night. So having a cut-off time is great for me. I generally eat between about 12.30 and 6.30 pm. I tend not to graze during the day because I've got things to do, and it's not my habit.

I would be the size of a small house if I didn't love climbing mountains. :roll:
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Lamont » Sat 17 Jul, 2021 7:58 am

Thought I'd throw this up:
https://www.totalwellbeingdiet.com/au/h ... tein-diet/
This is very successful, scientifically based and free (well, you get your money back).
Know many that used it and re-set themselves for good (much easier said they to avoid yo-yo ing with this plan) and
at a healthy weight.
Developed in conjunction with the CSIRO and a non profit 'improvement of community health' project.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby CasualNerd » Sat 17 Jul, 2021 9:13 pm

I only just saw this topic but wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I tried lots of random diets, supplements and exercise regimes over a few years but the thing that really got my cholesterol down was fasting and a keto diet. They're kind of interchangeable but some of the focus is the same - no insulin response, no bad hormones, no hunger problems, not killing your liver. The science is now well proven and it's no longer a fringe belief to restrict carbohydrate intake.

Stuff like health stars and low GI are nothing more than a scam, you can buy pure cane sugar that's certified low GI. I think even Mosely missed the point of fasting - the longer you do it the more incredible the results and fasting for two days means you barely get into the benefits of ketosis before you go back to a normal diet. Similarly I think the " calories in calories out" model is simplistic and flawed because we know for sure that the body reacts to different types of food. There are plenty of healthy omnivores and plenty of overweight vegetarians, it's not that simple.

As a chef I get it, it took me a long time to stop eating a few spare chips behind the line but it's so worth it.

Edit: Lifting weights turned out to be easily the most effective form of exercise, where you really have to push for progression and as you build muscle your body uses more energy just maintaining muscle compared to fat. Work on big muscle groups for easiest effect.
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby Neo » Sat 17 Jul, 2021 10:22 pm

Mmm, spare chips!
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Re: Weight loss needed

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 18 Jul, 2021 4:04 am

CasualNerd wrote:I think the " calories in calories out" model is simplistic and flawed because we know for sure that the body reacts to different types of food. There are plenty of healthy omnivores and plenty of overweight vegetarians, it's not that simple.

Want to rewrite principles in physics?
Just move it!
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