Bushfire season 2019-2020

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Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby potato » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 8:31 am

It's been a rather dry winter in some parts of the country and very wet in others. With this unless it turns to a wet spring and summer, I think we will see large fires again in the eastern states. Some areas in eastern Tasmania in particular have received very much below average rainfall.

Stay safe everyone. I hope we dont have a season like last year but climate change has caught up with us and big fires are the norm.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 8:41 am

For bushwalking fire danger is managable. Avoid walking on days with high wind. Carry a PLB. Multi day walks can be more challenging to plan safely.. I generally avoid walking above 27c.

Yes climate change is becoming very obvious now.

What annoys me is the increased hazard reduction burns. In NSW its almost every day from Sept-oct and then march-may. Prime walking and outdoor months they are choking the cities and parks in smoke and it's a ineffective big fire prevention technique. IMO that's a much bigger threat to life than the fires themselves. Smoke kills alot of people per year but it's ignored.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby potato » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:55 am

People like the idea of habitat reduction burns because they haven't looked deeply at the science. It's also easy for politicians to say they are doing something rather than addressing the real problems including more people living in high risk areas and climate change.

I agree the risk is rather manageable for the experience walker. Still not great though reading about people being airlifted out and putting the authorities at risk.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ghosta » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 6:46 pm

Seems a shame to see "hazard reduction burning deniers" who I put in the same boat as "climate change deniers". While there may be problems created by hazard reduction burning, to deny that it is effective only shows gross ignorance of the science behind the practice.
To some, science is a belief system you accept or reject on a whim.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby potato » Tue 03 Sep, 2019 6:50 pm

Well if you think targeting the groundcover, the habitat, fuel, hazard or whatever you want to call it, has any impact on the instensity of a full blown canopy fire, then call me and other scientists in this field deniers. A campfire can quicly escalate into a canopy fire.

Fires are complex and the groundcover that hazard reduction burns can only target is a very small part of the ingredients required to carry a fire across a landscape. Some large fires carry barely touching the groundcover. Its only once the embers of the canopy fall to the ground is the groundcover consumed.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ghosta » Wed 04 Sep, 2019 8:56 pm

Well I am a scientist. I have assisted eith bushfire research.

This topic seems way out of your sphere of knowledge!
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby tastrax » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 3:04 pm

Hazard reduction burns are also complex and can cover all fuel levels, including the crown, if so desired. Its just a matter of having the right political and public backing, prescriptions, conditions and resources.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby highercountry » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 3:30 pm

ghosta wrote:Seems a shame to see "hazard reduction burning deniers" who I put in the same boat as "climate change deniers". While there may be problems created by hazard reduction burning, to deny that it is effective only shows gross ignorance of the science behind the practice.


The science of climate change is irrefutable, within the scientific community. There is no debate.
The efficacy of hazard reduction burning is hotly debated within the scientific and broader community. Please don't insult the our intelligence with claims of gross ignorance regarding controlled burns. There is much yet to be debated, observed, learned and applied in terms of fuel reduction burning. It is not as cut and dried as you seem to imply.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ghosta » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 4:00 pm

Wondering how basic fire behavior can be so hard to understand....our volunteer firefighters come from all walks of life and have no problem confirming the effectiveness of hazard reduction burning in reducing fire intensity...they see it for themselves.

If you dont look you will never see....
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby highercountry » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 6:02 pm

ghosta wrote:Wondering how basic fire behavior can be so hard to understand...


Call yourself a scientist eh?
I don't think so.
Fire behaves in many and varied ways.
I've seen 30 foot flames roll across bone dry, dead bare, drought stricken paddocks; Australia Day, Benambra, Vic 2003.
No evident fuel whatsoever. Sheep dung maybe.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby rcaffin » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 8:15 pm

I think it depends on the country. Around Sydney and the east coast of NSW the control burns tend to be totally ineffectual. The last big fire we had here (near our farm, N edge of Sydney) went past at one hell of a speed, and literally jumped straight across the wide Berowra Waters estuary. Crown fire obviously, but the estuary is a lot wider than any FT and control burn I have ever assisted with (in local BFB). Imagining that a little strip of burnt scrub will stop a roaring bushfires - joke.

Several times in KNP we have had slight navigation problems - due to the thick smoke from control burns tens of km outside the park obscuring all views. But I suspect some of those burns were as much for fresh spring growth as for hazard reduction. Still made travel inside the Park unpleasant.

More people around Sydney die from control burns and smoke inhalation than from actual bushfires. And the way some Councils have permitted developers to stick houses right into the bush where they can NOT be protected - just for the extra profit.

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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ofuros » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 6:23 am

S.E Qld is pretty dry, hopefully the summer rains arrive early...
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby slparker » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 10:14 am

perhaps the scientists on the forum that are experts in the subject could explain how they have come to the conclusion that hazard reduction burns are both supported and refuted by the science, without resorting to anecdotes such as 'well, i have seen hazard reduction work/not work with my own eyes'. Scientists should know that data is not the plural of anecdote.

In the interim here are a couple of articles from the academic website 'TheConversation' which explains the current thinking around hazard reduction pros and cons.

https://theconversation.com/reducing-bu ... ence-19065

https://theconversation.com/explainer-b ... tion-20605


https://theconversation.com/bad-bushfir ... oney-15020
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 1:19 pm

Horrific start to the season in South-East QLD.

Most of the major national parks are closed, bushfires are burning, smoke haze everywhere. The lowest ever recorded humidity in the Canungra valley, which is directly below Lamington rainforest. I was there 2 weeks ago, the forest trees are wilted, the ground is crunchy.. usually the place is wet and damp all year round. Its 35 degrees here today... not good at all!
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 6:32 pm

Some more scientific studies.

6 days of hazard reduction in Sydney 2016 led to 15 premature deaths and 100 hospital admissions. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-16/ ... ds/8029160

Frequent fire makes the bush more likely to burn, UOW study finds
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/sto ... udy-finds/
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby slparker » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 7:32 pm

dalehikes wrote:Horrific start to the season in South-East QLD.

Most of the major national parks are closed, bushfires are burning, smoke haze everywhere. The lowest ever recorded humidity in the Canungra valley, which is directly below Lamington rainforest. I was there 2 weeks ago, the forest trees are wilted, the ground is crunchy.. usually the place is wet and damp all year round. Its 35 degrees here today... not good at all!


Prescient post... rhe Canungra area is currently under threat.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 7:45 pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-06/ ... d/11487016

Shocking video footage from today :(
Really shows the intensity of fire in a strong wind.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Mon 09 Sep, 2019 8:33 am

slparker wrote:
dalehikes wrote:Horrific start to the season in South-East QLD.

Most of the major national parks are closed, bushfires are burning, smoke haze everywhere. The lowest ever recorded humidity in the Canungra valley, which is directly below Lamington rainforest. I was there 2 weeks ago, the forest trees are wilted, the ground is crunchy.. usually the place is wet and damp all year round. Its 35 degrees here today... not good at all!


Prescient post... rhe Canungra area is currently under threat.


What a devastating weekend for the area and it still continues. :(
The community here is in shock and sadness. Binna Burra is a special place for so many...
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby Aardvark » Mon 09 Sep, 2019 8:51 am

Binna Burra has had fires before. Devastating as it can be, it's also a renewal. You can't last forever with the threat of fire over your head .

I only once stayed at the campground there and it will remain the only time. Lice or something similar left a lot of people i know feeling sorry they ever heard of the place.
Ever on the search for a one ended stick.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Mon 09 Sep, 2019 11:20 am

Aardvark wrote:Binna Burra has had fires before. Devastating as it can be, it's also a renewal. You can't last forever with the threat of fire over your head .


This is true, as a perfect example; the old farm that is now the top of Lower Bellbird circuit that is a total replant rejuvenation project was full to the brim with birds and wildlife recently. It is now burnt, however being a total rainforest rejuvenation project, it could actually be a boon to that particular patch of forest.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby Biggles » Mon 09 Sep, 2019 2:51 pm

Aardvark wrote:[...]
I only once stayed at the campground there and it will remain the only time. Lice or something similar left a lot of people i know feeling sorry they ever heard of the place.



It would help, a lot, if dreadlocks were not waxed and preened to attract all manner of bugs!!vAs things stand, lice readily transit between those with and without, so don't be too keen to flame the environment...

Bush ticks though are quite another nasty thing.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ofuros » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 6:51 am

:shock: ...so many parks all over Qld with fire bans in place.
https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/park-alert ... ndbrisbane
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ofuros » Mon 28 Oct, 2019 6:51 am

S.E. Qld. Main Range N.P.
Remote walks & camps included + other popular marked tracks in & around Cunningham's Gap, closed due to fire danger until the end of Nov...my favourite off-track range to explore. :(

https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/park-alerts/17129.html

Ooh...& Mt Barney too.
https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/park-alerts/17350.html
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Mon 28 Oct, 2019 7:29 am

A LOT of national parks areas have been burnt in the last 7 weeks and the only time the fires have made news is when the fire threatens buildings. Total disregard for the utter disaster that is happening out there in the mountains.

SE Queenslands little areas of NP have seen a patchwork of fires happening non stop and Northern NSW has experienced wide spread fire through many of the larger tracts of NP.

For almost 6 weeks there wasn't a thing on the news then all of a sudden, 2 houses were burnt and it was back... The firies have stated they are letting them burn in the wilderness and fighting them when they get too close to property. Priorities are all wrong! They should be fighting to protect rainforest areas.

If any other recreation sector was losing this much asset there would be uproar.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 28 Oct, 2019 7:41 am

You can only do so much with so little water and so few resources. Fire brigades job is to safeguard life as the first priority with property second and there are only so many volunteers. In many instances it becomes too dangerous for the people involved to stay and fight and they are not being paid; so to risk their life unnecessarily would be criminal.
Wildfires in National Parks is the job of the National Parks people not the volunteer fire service and people do forget this
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Mon 28 Oct, 2019 8:13 am

Moondog55 wrote:You can only do so much with so little water and so few resources. Fire brigades job is to safeguard life as the first priority with property second and there are only so many volunteers. In many instances it becomes too dangerous for the people involved to stay and fight and they are not being paid; so to risk their life unnecessarily would be criminal.


Yes, I agree with all that you said, and it is fair.

Its just sad to know that despite protection of these areas, World Heritage no less, being critical, their priority by the officials is very low.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby ghosta » Wed 30 Oct, 2019 12:24 pm

On what basis do you accuse authorities of giving fires in world heritage areas VERY LOW priority? Just because they are unable to safely extinguish such fires does not mean they are not given every possible consideration. You have much to learn about fires thats for sure!
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Wed 30 Oct, 2019 12:46 pm

ghosta wrote:On what basis do you accuse authorities of giving fires in world heritage areas VERY LOW priority? Just because they are unable to safely extinguish such fires does not mean they are not given every possible consideration. You have much to learn about fires thats for sure!


Just last week QFES issued a statement regarding a fire in Mt Barney NP stating this: "As the fire isn't threatening property, they would let the fire burn free until it reached a fire trail, at which time they could set up containment lines"

This may be all well and good, but they were letting it burn straight into a very special and fragile patch of antarctic beech rainforest. They weren't water bombing this area yet tirelessly waterbomb houses to save every last one they can.

Prioritising man made structures that can be rebuilt in 6 months over saving thousand year old trees.

While I would never criticise the work and risk the the firies do every year, I am more critical of the way humans at large view this problem.

By and large we are prioritising economic value over environmental value.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby CBee » Wed 30 Oct, 2019 2:17 pm

The fire was burning near Double Peak, we could smell it at Upper Portals. Hopefully it doesn't spread to Focal Peak: there are some amazing Antarctic beech up there.
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Re: Bushfire season 2019-2020

Postby dalehikes » Wed 30 Oct, 2019 3:43 pm

CBee wrote:The fire was burning near Double Peak, we could smell it at Upper Portals. Hopefully it doesn't spread to Focal Peak: there are some amazing Antarctic beech up there.


Yes, this is the area I am referring to. And yes, flanks of focal peak, montserrat and yamahra creek were all burnt, possibly even reached upper portals. The crest of the Ballows (Double peak, durramblee, mowburra) contains incredible patches of forest, some of the most beautiful ive seen. The fire appeared to burn right through the area.

It was this area that was burning when the firies stated they would let it burn freely. To me, that is a catastrophe.
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